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    Show HN: Hacker News em dash user leaderboard pre-ChatGPT

    (www.gally.net)
    358 points tkgally | 16 comments | 30 Aug 25 03:40 UTC | HN request time: 0.47s | source | bottom

    The use of the em dash (—) now raises suspicions that a text might have been AI-generated. Inspired by a suggestion from dang [1], I created a leaderboard of HN users according to how many of their posts before November 30, 2022—that is, before the release of ChatGPT—contained em dashes. Dang himself comes in number 2—by a very slim margin.

    Credit to Claude Code for showing me how to search the HN database through Google BigQuery and for writing the HTML for the leaderboard.

    [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45053933

    Show context
    tptacek ◴[30 Aug 25 04:21 UTC] No.45071905[source]▶
    The em-dash giveaway is an actual Unicode em-dash character, right? I professionally had to learn Latex to write a paper in the 1990s and picked up a "---" habit ever since, and I've been wondering if that's some kind of weird LLM tell now.
    replies(3): >>45071910 #>>45071948 #>>45072345 #
    1. majormajor ◴[30 Aug 25 04:36 UTC] No.45071948[source]▶
    There's an easy keyboard shortcut for it on Macs. I always saw it as a signifier of "Mac user with enough interest in writing style to use em-dashes instead of parentheses."

    But I'm not on a Mac right now so I don't know how to even make a real one at the moment other than that LaTeX method.

    replies(3): >>45072109 #>>45073229 #>>45073375 #
    2. machinate ◴[30 Aug 25 05:30 UTC] No.45072109[source]▶
    Easy is almost an understatement; it's Alt+Hyphen. [Edit: My bad that's en-dash, can't tell the difference in this monospaced text field. Em-dash you have to hold shift.]

    I guess on Windows it's Alt+0,1,5,1 on a numpad. Or you copy+paste from Character Map.

    replies(3): >>45072118 #>>45072547 #>>45079851 #
    3. e28eta ◴[30 Aug 25 05:32 UTC] No.45072118[source]▶
    To be pedantic: Opt-shift-hyphen for the em dash (longer one). Opt-hyphen only gets you an en dash.
    replies(3): >>45072180 #>>45072185 #>>45072992 #
    4. 9dev ◴[30 Aug 25 05:49 UTC] No.45072180{3}[source]▶
    …which is the appropriate character for ranges, i.e., page 1–2.

    I find it a bit sad that using proper typography is now frowned upon, but it seems that ship has sailed.

    replies(1): >>45072821 #
    5. machinate ◴[30 Aug 25 05:50 UTC] No.45072185{3}[source]▶
    Right, you sniped my edit. I don't know why I gave up my hn delay setting...
    6. notpushkin ◴[30 Aug 25 07:08 UTC] No.45072547[source]▶
    You can install a custom layout on Windows, like the one I made: https://typo.ale.sh/
    7. Symbiote ◴[30 Aug 25 08:02 UTC] No.45072821{4}[source]▶
    From the discussion with our head of communications (whose pedantry I approve of) US usage avoids spaces—like this—and should use an em-dash.

    But British usage – instead – uses spaces, so an en-dash or an em-dash is acceptable.

    replies(1): >>45074735 #
    8. saagarjha ◴[30 Aug 25 08:36 UTC] No.45072992{3}[source]▶
    One of the reasons I'm not on that page–I have a policy of using en dashes because I am lazy
    9. Freak_NL ◴[30 Aug 25 09:25 UTC] No.45073229[source]▶
    Not just Apple users. The compose-key does this on a variety of desktop operating systems, where the shortcut is COMPOSE - - - for em-dash, and - - . for en-dash.
    replies(1): >>45074225 #
    10. Hamuko ◴[30 Aug 25 09:59 UTC] No.45073375[source]▶
    Another one is … instead of ...
    11. layer8 ◴[30 Aug 25 12:54 UTC] No.45074225[source]▶
    Alternatively, Compose 2 - for en dash and Compose 3 - for em dash.
    12. d1sxeyes ◴[30 Aug 25 13:57 UTC] No.45074735{5}[source]▶
    Generally spaces around em-dashes is a question of style, not pre- or pro-scribed by any specific typographical rule. One nice middle ground is a hair space ( ), although it’s a pain to insert.
    replies(2): >>45078440 #>>45078445 #
    13. 1659447091 ◴[30 Aug 25 22:11 UTC] No.45078440{6}[source]▶
    > spaces around em-dashes is a question of style, not pre- or pro-scribed by any specific typographical rule

    Writing and publishing style guides like Hart's Rules (Oxford Style Guide) & Chicago manual of style have the 'em' dash use as a parenthetical closed or "no spaces" dash.

    In British use – Hart's Rules – writers will choose the 'en' dash with spaces as a parenthetical dash, where US writers/publishers choose the closed 'em' dash for the same thing.

    Imo, there is a conflation of 'en' dash and 'em' dash going around due to the ease of smart-dashes auto-correction turning (--) into 'em' dash with the 'en' dash and non-auto-correct 'em' dash needing a key-combo.

    Common everyday typing online, I think people will simply use what is convenient and "good enough" -- a single hyphen dash as an 'en' dash or 2-hyphen dashes that may or may not auto correct into an 'em' dash. I prefer mixing spaces with a 2-hyphen dash 'em' dash, but I'm not a published writer so I enjoy doing wild things like that

    14. andrewaylett ◴[30 Aug 25 22:12 UTC] No.45078445{6}[source]▶
    I configured my Markdown renderer to replace ` -- ` with " — ". Hopefully those narrow spaces make it through HN's rendering — it's much easier when your tooling can do the job for you.

    https://github.com/andrewaylett/aylett.co.uk/blob/d338d35a3d...

    15. SAI_Peregrinus ◴[31 Aug 25 02:36 UTC] No.45079851[source]▶
    Or you've had WinCompose installed for years and type Compose+hyphen+hyphen+hyphen. — is easy to type that way. The same works for Linux with a compose key enabled, WinCompose is a program to give Windows a compose key, and comes with default sequences including those found by default in most distro's XCompose list.
    replies(1): >>45080298 #
    16. etra0 ◴[31 Aug 25 04:08 UTC] No.45080298{3}[source]▶
    Big shout-out to WinCompose, it's the only way I found my keyboard usable while being bilingual :)