←back to thread

369 points surprisetalk | 9 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
Show context
jp57 ◴[] No.45065311[source]
One great piece of advice an informal mentor gave me long ago is that there is no information in a rejection.

That is to say that you cannot draw any conclusions about yourself or your interviewing technique or your skills or anything from the single accept==0 bit that you typically get back. There are so many reasons that a candidate might get rejected that have nothing to do with one's individual performance in the interview or application process.

Having been on the hiring side of the interview table now many more times than on the seeking side, I can say that this is totally true.

One of the biggest misconceptions I see from job seekers, especially younger ones, is to equate a job interview to a test at school, assuming that there is some objective bar and if you pass it then you must be hired. It's simply not true. Frequently more than one good applicant applies for a single open role, and the hiring team has to choose among them. In that case, you could "pass" and still not get the job and the only reason is that the hiring team liked someone else better.

I can only think of one instance where we had two great candidates for one role and management found a way to open another role so we could hire both. In a few other cases, we had people whom we liked but didn't choose and we forwarded their resumes to other teams who had open roles we thought would fit, but most of the time it's just, "sorry."

replies(28): >>45065407 #>>45066721 #>>45067214 #>>45067507 #>>45067669 #>>45067749 #>>45067752 #>>45067853 #>>45067877 #>>45068124 #>>45068162 #>>45068646 #>>45068946 #>>45069685 #>>45070016 #>>45070244 #>>45070366 #>>45070789 #>>45070808 #>>45071113 #>>45071336 #>>45071402 #>>45071583 #>>45072653 #>>45073540 #>>45074003 #>>45074100 #>>45081560 #
jimmar ◴[] No.45067669[source]
> there is no information in a rejection.

The most helpful job interview I had was when the interviewer broke script and just leveled with me about how I wasn't presenting myself well. There was a shared connection (our alma mater) that must have convinced him to be straight with me instead of hiding how poorly I was doing behind a mask. The HR handbooks say that you should never let a candidate know why they were not selected, but that information can be extremely helpful.

If you're not getting offers, I strongly recommend that you find somebody you trust to do a mock interview. Let them critique your resume, cover letter, posture, awkwardness, lame handshake, etc.

replies(3): >>45067696 #>>45067879 #>>45073675 #
WalterBright ◴[] No.45067696[source]
The HR handbooks say that for good reason. Telling a candidate why they were rejected means they'll argue with you, or worse, file a lawsuit.
replies(4): >>45067763 #>>45067871 #>>45069598 #>>45071281 #
sitkack ◴[] No.45071281[source]
I have done about 75 coding interviews for big tech companies. I have told a fair number of people (around 10) that I would be submitting a no-hire, but then I went on to coach them for another 15 minutes on how they could improve. I never once heard from anyone on the subject and all the people I told were actually grateful 1) that they wouldn't be left wondering and 2) how they could pass the next one.

I'd want someone to do the same.

replies(1): >>45071382 #
1. htrp ◴[] No.45071382[source]
All it takes is 1 candidate with an axe to grind and I guarantee you'll never give feedback again.
replies(1): >>45073013 #
2. saagarjha ◴[] No.45073013[source]
It's fine to build a better world until then.
replies(3): >>45073390 #>>45073496 #>>45075744 #
3. anon35 ◴[] No.45073390[source]
"Until then" means others will pay for your decision to ignore policy when it happens. It's never on the person who -- with every good intention, full of an instinct to "build a better world" -- willfully ignores the stuffy rules in handbooks and HR guidelines. Instead, when it backfires and someone does threaten to sue, it's precisely execs, HRs, legal who have to deal with it. The rules are there for good reason.
replies(1): >>45081715 #
4. WalterBright ◴[] No.45073496[source]
A better world would be one with no locks on doors. But until then, I'm going to lock doors.
replies(1): >>45073521 #
5. saagarjha ◴[] No.45073521{3}[source]
Plenty of people keep their doors unlocked until they get stolen from.
replies(1): >>45073800 #
6. WalterBright ◴[] No.45073800{4}[source]
Sure. And they accomplished nothing.
replies(1): >>45081719 #
7. sitkack ◴[] No.45075744[source]
Exactly. The lock analogy is flawed and a distraction. I made a local universe of how I think the world should be. I gave those people the respect I think we all deserve, and hopefully they stand up and do the same. Maybe they are in HR, or become a C-level and institute the same things.

When you comply in advance, you not only let "them" win, there isn't even a them here, just an idea of a possible threat. Fuck that. Anyone can sue for anything, you can't "do stuff so you won't get sued". Frankly, this is cowards take that lets an nebulous idea pollute your world.

We don't have to Joan of Arc or Don Quixote, we can just do the little stuff that changes culture in the direction we'd like to see it changed.

Humans are incredibly valuable across many many dimensions, not letting them know how they can improve is a massive waste and harmful to both parties.

8. saagarjha ◴[] No.45081715{3}[source]
I run our hiring process and my employer is small enough that I would be personally responsible for this
9. saagarjha ◴[] No.45081719{5}[source]
Besides living the dream of a high-trust society?