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ctoth ◴[] No.45068556[source]
The web doesn't need attestation. It doesn't need signed agents. It doesn't need Cloudflare deciding who's a "real" user agent. It needs people to remember that "public" means PUBLIC and implement basic damn rate limiting if they can't handle the traffic.

The web doesn't need to know if you're a human, a bot, or a dog. It just needs to serve bytes to whoever asks, within reasonable resource constraints. That's it. That's the open web. You'll miss it when it's gone.

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johncolanduoni ◴[] No.45068690[source]
Basic damn rate limiting is pretty damn exploitable. Even ignoring botnets (which is impossible), usefully rate limiting IPv6 is anything but basic. If you just pick some prefix from /48 to /64 to key your rate limits on, you'll either be exploitable by IPs from providers that hand out /48s like candy or you'll bucket a ton of mobile users together for a single rate limit.
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ctoth ◴[] No.45068822[source]
You make unauthenticated requests cheap enough that you don't care about volume. Reserve rate limiting for authenticated users where you have real identity. The open web survives by being genuinely free to serve, not by trying to guess who's "real."

A basic Varnish setup should get you most of the way there, no agent signing required!

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hombre_fatal ◴[] No.45068881[source]
Your response to unauthenticated requests could be <h1>Hello world</h1> served from memory and your server/link will still fail under a volumetric attack, and you still get the pleasure of paying for the bandwidth.

So no, this advice has been outdated for decades.

Also you're doing some sort of victim blaming where everyone on earth has to engineer their service to withstand DoS instead of outsourcing that to someone else. Abusers outsource their attacks to everyone else's machine (decentralization ftw!), but victims can't outsource their defense because centralization goes against your ideals.

At least lament the naive infrastructure of the internet or something, sheesh.

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ctoth ◴[] No.45069407{3}[source]
We started with "AI crawlers are too aggressive" and you've escalated to volumetric DDoS. These aren't the same problem. OpenAI hitting your API too hard is solved by caching, not by Cloudflare deciding who gets an "agent passport."

"Victim blaming"? Can we please leave these therapy-speak terms back in the 2010s where they belong and out of technical discussions? If expecting basic caching is victim blaming, then so is expecting HTTPS, password hashing, or any technical competence whatsoever.

Your decentralization point actually proves mine: yes, attackers distribute while defenders centralize. That's why we shouldn't make centralization mandatory! Right now you can choose Cloudflare. With attestation, they become the web's border control.

The fine article makes it clear what this is really about - Cloudflare wants to be the gatekeeper for agent traffic. Agent attestation doesn't solve volumetric attacks (those need the DDoS protection they already sell, no new proposal required!) They're creating an allowlist where they decide who's "legitimate."

But sure, let's restructure the entire web's trust model because some sites can't configure a cache. That seems proportional.

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1. hombre_fatal ◴[] No.45069608{4}[source]
Well, your post escalated to the broad claim that I responded to.

You didn't just disagree with AI crawler attestation: you're saying that nobody should distinguish earnest users from everything else because they should bear the cost of serving both, which necessarily entails bad traffic and incidental DoS.

Once again, services like CloudFlare exist because a cache isn't sufficient to deal with arbitrary traffic, and the scale of modern abuse is so large that only a few megacorps can provide the service that people want.