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Tesla said it didn't have key data in a fatal crash, then a hacker found it

(www.washingtonpost.com)
650 points clcaev | 13 comments | 29 Aug 25 11:15 UTC | HN request time: 1.125s | source | bottom
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fabian2k ◴[29 Aug 25 12:38 UTC] No.45063298[source]▶
Do I understand it correctly? Crash data gets automatically transmitted to Tesla, and after it was transmitted is immediately marked for deletion?

If that is actually designed like this, the only reason I could see for it would be so that Tesla has sole access to the data and can decide whether to use it or not. Which really should not work in court, but it seems it has so far.

And of course I'd expect an audit trail for the deletion of crash data on Tesla servers. But who knows whether there actually isn't one, or nobody looked into it at all.

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1. phkahler ◴[29 Aug 25 13:47 UTC] No.45064088[source]▶
>> Tesla has sole access to the data

All vehicle manufacturers have sole access to data. There isn't a standard for logging data, nor a standard for retrieving it. Some components log data and it only the supplier has the means to read and interpret it.

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2. __alexs ◴[29 Aug 25 14:14 UTC] No.45064415[source]▶
There is a world of difference between "you need our special hardware and software to read the data" and "we deleted it lol".
3. dghlsakjg ◴[29 Aug 25 14:42 UTC] No.45064787[source]▶
Mostly incorrect. At least for the US.

If your car has an EDR, what data it collects is legislated. There is not a standard interface for retrieving it, but the manufacturer is required to ensure that there is a commercially available tool for data retrieval that any third party can use.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-V/p...

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4. onlyrealcuzzo ◴[29 Aug 25 15:17 UTC] No.45065260[source]▶
Does it legislate that you can't "accidentally" delete all incriminating data?
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5. sidewndr46 ◴[29 Aug 25 15:17 UTC] No.45065265[source]▶
It looks like this covers "and an unloaded vehicle weight of 2,495 kg (5,500 pounds) or less". From what I understand even my F-150 wouldn't fall under this legislation
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6. jayd16 ◴[29 Aug 25 15:26 UTC] No.45065367{3}[source]▶
Might not cover large trucks but most sedans are under that.

Is this one of those "that's why big cars are cheaper to make" situations?

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7. Aurornis ◴[29 Aug 25 15:57 UTC] No.45065755{3}[source]▶
Unloaded vehicle weight, not gross vehicle weight.

From a quick search, it's technically possible to configure some model year F-150s to have a curb weight over 5,500 pounds with all the right options, but most are lower.

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8. dghlsakjg ◴[29 Aug 25 16:00 UTC] No.45065804{3}[source]▶
There are other regulations for larger and commercial vehicles. Not sure if there is a light truck ruleset.

Also the rules I posted are only if the manufacturer chooses to equip a recorder. They can opt not to have one.

The point I was making is that the GP was just saying shit that had no basis in fact.

9. dghlsakjg ◴[29 Aug 25 16:01 UTC] No.45065819{4}[source]▶
No.

The EDR is optional. If the manufacturer chooses to install it, it must meet those standards.

I was just refuting the GPs assertion that they are all proprietary and that only the manufacturer can access the data.

10. advisedwang ◴[29 Aug 25 16:01 UTC] No.45065820[source]▶
Eh, there's a difference between sole custody (which is what Tesla has created) and sole knowledge/right to access the data.
11. dghlsakjg ◴[29 Aug 25 16:14 UTC] No.45065989{3}[source]▶
Depends on the severity of the crash. If it meets certain thresh-holds (air bag deployment) the recording memory must be permanently locked in the onboard recorder.
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12. onlyrealcuzzo ◴[29 Aug 25 17:36 UTC] No.45067079{4}[source]▶
Is the penalty for "oops, we had a bug, and it's gone," similar to the >$100M penalty they got?

If not, I assume they'll keep losing all incriminating data.

13. briffle ◴[29 Aug 25 18:04 UTC] No.45067429{4}[source]▶
A Rivian R1s is about 6800 pounds because of its batteries..