←back to thread

179 points articsputnik | 6 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
Show context
serbuvlad ◴[] No.45054479[source]
I think the whole AI vs non. AI debate is a bit besides the point. Engineers are stuck in the old paradigm of "perfect" algorithms.

I think the image you post at the beginning basically sums it up for me: ChatGPT o3/5 Thinking can one-shot 75% of most reasonably sized tasks I give it without breaking a sweat, but struggles with tweaks to get it to 100%. So I make those tweaks myself and I have cut my code writing task in half or one third of the time.

ChatGPT also knows more idioms and useful libraries than I do so I generally end up with cleaner code this way.

Ferrari's are still hand assembled but Ford's assembly line and machines help save up human labor even if the quality of a mass-produced item is less than a hand-crafted one. But if everything was hand-crafted, we would have no computers at all to program.

Programming and writing will become niche and humans will still be used where a quality higher than what AI can produce is needed. But most code will be done by minotaur human-ai teams, where the human has a minimal but necessary contribution to keep the AI on track... I mean, it already is.

replies(16): >>45054579 #>>45054647 #>>45054815 #>>45054948 #>>45054968 #>>45055113 #>>45055151 #>>45055212 #>>45055260 #>>45055308 #>>45055473 #>>45055512 #>>45055563 #>>45058219 #>>45060059 #>>45061019 #
simianwords ◴[] No.45054815[source]
This comment captures it.

AI can do 80% of the work. I can review it later. And I spend much less time reviewing than I would have typing up everything manually.

I recently used it to add some logging and exception handling. It had to be done in multiple places.

A simple 2 line prompt one shotted it. Why do I need to waste time writing boring code?

replies(9): >>45054965 #>>45055005 #>>45055144 #>>45055163 #>>45055240 #>>45055406 #>>45057592 #>>45057736 #>>45057973 #
roblh ◴[] No.45055005[source]
Are you still going to have the skills to review it a year from now? Or 5 years from now when you’ve become accustomed to only writing <20% of the code? I’m already witnessing my coworkers skills degrading because of this, and it’s only going to get worse. Programming is a language, and when you don’t use it, it fades.
replies(2): >>45055073 #>>45055086 #
simianwords ◴[] No.45055073[source]
What will happen is that we as developers will move one layer up in the abstraction. In the future it would seem a bit nonsensical to focus on individual lines of code and syntax because AI can more or less deal with it.

We will be focusing more higher level design - which database, where the data flows, which service is used where and so on. So you will just need different skills. Coding as a skill won't be that important.

replies(5): >>45055154 #>>45055470 #>>45057599 #>>45057700 #>>45062291 #
1. gmueckl ◴[] No.45055154[source]
That is wishful thinking. Every layer we added between humans and the machines (and even the ones in the machines themselves) take hordes of dedicated humans to maintain: IDEs, compilers/interpreters, linters, CI tools, assemblers, linkers, operating systems, firmware, microcode, circuitry, circuit elements (manufacturing processes).
replies(2): >>45055229 #>>45055243 #
2. wrs ◴[] No.45055229[source]
Just about every time somebody on this site says “we developers”, you can assume they’re ignoring the (large majority of) developers that don’t work on the same things they do, in the same way.

Yes, all those ever-growing layers of intricate abstraction that you take for granted and “don’t have to worry about” are conceived of, designed, built, and maintained by developers. Who do you think wrote the compiler for that syntax you don’t want to learn?

replies(1): >>45055294 #
3. simianwords ◴[] No.45055243[source]
I agree with you. But not many people work with or understand the abstraction at OS or circuitry level.

That’s kind of my point: most people will work on higher abstractions but there will be some who maintain lower ones.

I write C# but I barely care about memory, gc nor microcontrollers nor assembly. Vast majority of people work on higher abstractions.

replies(1): >>45066603 #
4. simianwords ◴[] No.45055294[source]
The point of abstraction is that it doesn’t leak. Most developers don’t need to understand compiler theory or assembly to be productive.

No one in my company writes assembly. very few developers work at that level of abstraction - this means those who made the compilers are doing a good job.

replies(1): >>45067862 #
5. gmueckl ◴[] No.45066603[source]
I would challenge that it is really a vast majority working at these highest levels of abstractions. There are thousands of people working on C#, Java and JavaScript runtimes and basic libraries. There are thousands of people working on compilers and thousands more (morw likely tens of thousands) working on operating systems and drivers etc... I think that the amount of effort that goes into all of this is severely underestimated because it so far removed from the perspective of a high level application developer.
6. wrs ◴[] No.45067862{3}[source]
Yes, and very few people working on compilers do OS kernels, and very few people working on databases do compilers, etc. etc. My point is, they're all developers, so when you say "we developers", you'd better be speaking for all of them.