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AnotherGoodName ◴[] No.45045883[source]
This was called the TLM role at google. Technical Lead/Manager. You were expected to code and manage a couple of more junior engineers.

It’s part of an effort to have dedicated managers and dedicated engineers instead of hybrid roles.

This is being sold as an efficiency win for the sake of the stock price but it’s really just moved a few people around with the TLMs now 100% focused on programming.

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B-Con ◴[] No.45046811[source]
GOOG has made a systemic push to eliminate the role starting ~3 years ago. At that time my M was a staff level IC TLM with 4 reports who was forcibly converted to EM.

In those last 3 years I've only seen TLMs used to assist an overloaded EM.

The pattern I've seen is something like:

    Principal EM
    |- Staff EM (7 reports, project A)
    |- Staff EM (8 reports, project B)
    |- Staff IC (projects A, B, C)
    |- Senior IC (projects A, B)
    |- Senior IC (project C)
    |- Mid level IC (project C)
    |- Mid level IC (project C)
Maybe project C was just reorged under the Principal EM or maybe it's a speculative side project. But those last three are clearly clustered, there's no good line manager fit and the principal EM feels disconnected from the 2 mid level ICs. Project C is a bit of an island and projects A and B are taking up most of the EM's time.

So the Principal EM deputizes Senior IC on project C as a TLM until things have changed enough that there can be a dedicated EM. Eventually the TLM converts to EM, a new EM is brought in, or there's a reorg, etc.

Of the two times I saw saw it happen locally, both converted back to ICs after a year or two and noted that the role felt like being 70% IC and 70% EM.

Nowadays the TLM role doesn't exist so the principal would delegate most of the technical responsibilities of the M role, giving them nearly full control of project C, but would not give them a formal role. (I've been that senior IC for project C.)

(Edit for formatting.)

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dhx ◴[] No.45047345[source]
Do you have a mapping to roles/levels[1], for example:

Principal EM - USD$1.3m/yr per https://www.levels.fyi/companies/google/salaries/software-en...

Staff EM - USD$664k/yr per https://www.levels.fyi/companies/google/salaries/software-en...

Staff IC - USD$557k/yr per https://www.levels.fyi/companies/google/salaries/software-en...

Senior IC - USD$410k/yr per https://www.levels.fyi/companies/google/salaries/software-en...

Mid IC - USD$290k/yr per https://www.levels.fyi/companies/google/salaries/software-en...

levels.fyi doesn't appear to use the term "Technical Lead". There is "Technical Program Manager" and "Technical Account Manager" that sound like they'd be similar (someone technical transitioning into a full-time non-technical role). And then roles such as "Product Manager" and "Program Manager" seemingly for those who are currently 100% non-technical in their work.

Does the change mean the most competent solution architect who has successfully designed and implemented many complex systems from scratch is capped in salary package because they're not doing the important job of demanding those around them fill out TPS reports all day?

[1] https://www.levels.fyi/companies/google/salaries/software-en...

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1. danpalmer ◴[] No.45047505{3}[source]
TPM and TAM are completely different roles. TPMs are essentially project or program managers across wider parts of the org, and the "technical" means they have something beyond a surface understanding of the technical aspects, but are likely not writing any code. TAMs are account managers in the sales org with a focus on giving clients more technical support or planning integrations etc.

"Technical lead" is not a role profile or ladder, it's what you're doing. You could be a TL at L4 on a small project, and you could not be TL at L7 if it's a big enough project. All very subjective.

The point of this thread is that there are teams with a manager who is the defacto TL for the projects the team is doing, so they have IC responsibilities, and then there are teams where the manager does manager things and there's one or more separate TLs.

I've worked on teams in both structures, both in and out of Google, and whether TLMs vs EMs work well depends on so many factors: who the manager is, their management style, the org's priorities, the projects, etc.