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I don’t think this really requires clarification but I’m happy to indulge you on a product by product basis. Do you really think that loaf of bread you make at home is made with the same chemical process as the bread coming from Wonderbread on the shelves at Wal-Mart? It’s sure as hell not using the same ingredients and it definitely costs quite a bit of $.

You can apply this to furniture too. Do you think the furniture you buy at IKEA is made of actual wood with the same chemical process as the wood furniture you spend more money on that’s made by hand? (It’s not)

Are IKEA’s (or whoever) suppliers paying workers good wages? Are their practices sustainable? Are they clear cutting forests and mixing plastic and literal trash into the furniture you buy and throw away after it starts to degrade?

Even pharmaceuticals - are you sure generic drugs are just as good? I generally think so, but just because you cook with the same ingredients doesn’t mean Anthony Bourdain RIP isn’t using those same ingredients and making a better dish (drug).

If there’s confusion about concepts I would say it’s mostly confusion on behalf of the public whom goes to the store, sees price tag + brand, and thinks that’s all they are comparing when they buy things.

And yes, its the exact same chemical processes. How on earth would it not be? The fermentation of sugar is not a chemical process that suddenly changes based on weather its done at home or in a factory. The rest is just choice of grains, sugars and additives.

It's not the same item, that's why. You're still not understanding how products are priced, nor are you accounting for negative externalities (or positive ones) that factor into that price.

Prices aren't being artificially inflated because of tariffs any more than they are artificially lower because of a certain country's monetary policy or wage gaps or whatever.

Here's the ingredients list for Wonderbread from Wal-Mart.com

Ingredients Unbleached Enriched Flour (Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Water, Nonfat Milk, Enriched Semolina (Durum Wheat, Niacin, Ferrous Sulfate, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Sugar, Yeast, Contains 2% or Less of Each of the Following: Soybean Oil, Wheat Gluten, Salt, Cultured Wheat Flour, Sunflower Lecithin, Enzymes, Ascorbic Acid, Soy Lecithin.

Active Ingredient Name Unbleached Enriched Flour (Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Water, Enriched Semolina (Durum Wheat, Niacin, Ferrous Sulfate, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Sugar, Yeast, Contains 2% or Less of Each of the Following: Soybean Oil, Wheat Gluten, Salt, Vinegar, Cultured Wheat Flour, Sunflower Lecithin, Enzymes, Ascorbic Acid, Soy Lecithin.

Here's my ingredients list for bread: salt, water, flour, yeast.

Are you really going to sit here and argue that these are the same products and they are made in the same chemical process?

This applies to other goods too, including manufactured goods. It's why Apple has historically had such great products. Sure the Windows PC specs were better, but the computer was always more than the sum of its parts and Apple continued to win out.

> Artisanal is a perfectly fine luxury hobby.

I think you are getting hung up on this word artisanal but it's not really relevant.

"Artisinal" products today are mostly marketed that way because in order for the product to compete on the market at a price the producer can afford to make it at and still live on, the product has to tell a story or have a clever marketing scheme or something like that because they can't achieve the volume of production that they need at a low enough cost to compete with mass-market supply chains and artificially cheap labor from other countries.

But these products don't have to be "artisanal", they can just be regular products that you buy at the store or a local market or something. Introducing tariffs to offset actions by other states that cause their products to be artificially cheap, keeping American entrepreneurs from starting their own soap [1] companies or whatever might raise prices in a sense, but overall it is better for the economy since there are less economic outflows, less gig workers and people on government handouts, and more entrepreneurial activities and product innovation.

Software engineers already know this is true, which is why they always complain about outsourcing of jobs to cheaper countries. It's cheaper! That's all that matters, right?

[1] I don't know that soap is the best commodity product to use, it's just an example.

>"Artisinal" products today are mostly marketed that way because in order for the product to compete on the market at a price the producer can afford to make it at and still live on, the product has to tell a story or have a clever marketing scheme or something like that because they can't achieve the volume of production that they need at a low enough cost to compete with mass-market supply chains and artificially cheap labor from other countries.

Correct, its no longer a sustainable business. How far do you want to go? Would you make nails by hand too? How about mining the steel for the nails? Artisanal today (not 400 years ago) is a luxury product born out of free time and our basic needs having already been met by industrial processes. The way to make it sustainable source of income is to do what the factories are doing, automate and scale up.

And why this over focus on producers? What about consumers? Why kill consumers to artificially enrich producers? I care deeply about the middle and lower class. I don't want their expenses to suddenly rise several times because government turned what was a free choice and forced them into an artificially propped up expensive hobby market pretending to be a real market.

But let us not get too lost from the question. Let us first decide what is the meaningful distinction to our purposes between these two breads in relation to the matter of tariffs.

Ok unfortunately I don’t think we really have much to discuss here if you think that. Our world views on products and economics are too different.

Sometimes, there is no deeper explanation for this nonsense than being a sore loser at someone else being better than you at something.

You still failed to explain btw precisely in what manner the differences between the production of bread at home and at a factory are relevant to tariffs?

China for example doesn’t allow US social media companies. There you go. There’s one item which is all we need, therefore tariffs against China are justified until they open their markets to free competition from the US. Hell, just this week the CCP banned Chinese companies from buying Nvidia chips.

(I’m picking on China here because it’s the east example, but it is not the only one)

> Sometimes, there is no deeper explanation for this nonsense than being a sore loser at someone else being better than you at something.

Ok let us be sore losers by ourselves with our tariffs. What concern is it if any other country?

And you seem to be forgetting I am equally in opposition of tariffs and consider it fucking shit when China or anyone else does it.

Be sore losers, nobody is stopping you, I just truly and earnestly hope for the sake of your country that I am wrong.

I take that as you admitting you are a complete liar who puts words into others mouths and unable to answer not just one but several very easy questions.

> And you seem to be forgetting I am equally in opposition of tariffs and consider it fucking shit when China or anyone else does it.

You asked and I delivered. I wasn’t accusing you of being in favor of trade barriers.

I am also calling you sore losers because its, objectively minus any value judgments, a truth. Tariffs on a sector mean you are a loser in that sector. Not a big deal when said country never claimed to be a proponent of free trade before. But when its a country that ruins the board whose rules themselves setup, then yes? Idk what else to call them.