←back to thread

542 points xbmcuser | 4 comments | | HN request time: 0.826s | source
Show context
throw0101c ◴[] No.45037962[source]
Always reminded of the Tom Toro (2012) New Yorker cartoon:

> Yes, the planet got destroyed. But for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders.

* https://www.instagram.com/tbtoro/p/B_SdEVThgCr/

* https://www.insidehook.com/culture/story-tom-toro-new-yorker...

replies(2): >>45038062 #>>45038303 #
ACCount37 ◴[] No.45038303[source]
"Creating value for shareholders" has done more for sustainability than eco-activists could ever hope to.

Industrial capitalists make mass produced LED lights and cheap solar panels. Eco-activists push for anti-nuclear laws and plastic straw bans.

It's pretty telling that oil lobbyists resort to non-market methods like bribing politicians to stall renewables. They know the time is running out - with all the new power generation and storage tech that's in the pipeline, fossil fuels just aren't going to be economically viable forever. Renewables are rising, and there is no moat - all the existing oil assets those companies hold are going to be increasingly useless as more and more of the world's power comes from non-fossil sources.

"Stall" is about the extent of it though. You can't fight economic forces off forever.

replies(5): >>45038606 #>>45038900 #>>45038918 #>>45044546 #>>45046163 #
1. tbossanova ◴[] No.45044546[source]
I haven't come across any "eco activists" who solely push for straw bans etc and nothing else. It's pretty obvious that the way forward is to not use so much stuff. LEDs and solar panels are nice but don't encourage using less stuff. "Creating value for shareholders" encourages using more stuff. But you're probably right, "economic forces" look like they win, now and forever.
replies(1): >>45046183 #
2. ACCount37 ◴[] No.45046183[source]
I reject the notion. If your solution relies on people "using less stuff", then you have no solution at all.

People like using stuff, and if someone tries to take away their QoL, they'll oppose it strongly - and rightfully so. Which is a very basic thing that, somehow, almost no environmentalist seems to grasp.

replies(2): >>45046712 #>>45047409 #
3. tbossanova ◴[] No.45046712[source]
I an currently forced to use stuff. I would walk to the shop if one was close enough, but everything around me is built around cars so it’s not practical. Thus I am forced to use a car though I would rather not. Now, you’re entirely correct that it seems a majority of people either like it this way or aren’t capable of imagining anything different. I still hold on to hope that it might change, as irrational as that might be. And in the meantime I’m not opposed to renewable energy etc
4. immibis ◴[] No.45047409[source]
What if people didn't like using stuff as much as they do? A large part of that is the result of advertising. What if we banned advertising?