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userbinator ◴[] No.45035952[source]
This shouldn't just be "questions"; this should be a full-on opposition. Do not give them even an inch, or they'll take a mile.

"debugger vendors in 2047 distributed numbered copies only, and only to officially licensed and bonded programmers." - Richard Stallman, The Right to Read, 1997

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teekert ◴[] No.45036017[source]
Why is it so complex to have a foss mobile OS.

I only have Linux PCs (laptops) and servers, 100% of my work and personal stuff is done there (though for work I do need to hop into MS365, Google Workspace, Zoom, etc, hooray for browsers, my final firewall between me and the walled gardens, though we can have a whole discussion on that).

For mobile, we have PostmarketOS, Phosh, Ubuntu Touch. I really must try living in them, is it on me? IDK, our government even has an identity app for iOS and Android. I should not be using it, I should stick to web. But its so much more convenient. I'm just weak, aren't I?

Maybe I should go for Ubuntu touch, with an iPad on the side or something. At least my most personal device is something I control then. Or just keep my Linux laptop handy (or make a cyberdeck!). But I want a computing platform that does not require carrying a bag. It's kinda sad. Even GrapheneOS (one of the most personal and secure mobile computing experiences out there)'s future is in the hands of its greatest adversary, the one that does not want you to have a personal computing experience.

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rattyJ2 ◴[] No.45036382[source]
I could be one of the people running an ungoogled phone, but my bank refuses to have an app that runs on an ungoogled OS for "security"
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preisschild ◴[] No.45036466[source]
Write them. My bank's app had safetynet, but they disabled it and now it is usable over GrapheneOS.

Unfortunately no NFC Payments though, since they are only available for Google Wallet (which uses safetynet)

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aspenmayer ◴[] No.45036883[source]
> Unfortunately no NFC Payments though, since they are only available for Google Wallet (which uses safetynet)

A workaround for NFC payments I've heard about for folks running OSes on their Androids that don't support that feature is a smartwatch with NFC.

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subscribed ◴[] No.45037170[source]
Precisely. Google pixel, Garmin watches, even Samsung watches.

Or using a bank that supports NFC payments (not using Google Wallet).

GrapheneOS Foundation raised this practice with European Commission because it unfairly penalises secure and safe competition giving instead a lie to the developers and banks that ancient, unsafe, vulnerable platforms are more secure.

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notpushkin ◴[] No.45037518[source]
Fidesmo Pay is another option, though the bank support is limited: https://fidesmo.com/consumer/fidesmo-pay/

Basically it’s a passive variant of smartwatch payments: you can pay with a ring, or bracelet, or a mechanical watch. The cheapest option is this plastic thingy (currently out of stock): https://eu.k-pay.com/product/mavericks

I’m thinking about implanting one into my hand :^)

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1. aspenmayer ◴[] No.45043998[source]
> I’m thinking about implanting one into my hand :^)

On the one hand, I approve of self-administered biohacking.

On the other hand, you might need a Faraday glove to prevent tap to pay shenanigans by folks with a mobile card reader who bump check you.

I would not do this type of biohacking myself, but if you go down this path, look into how NFC skimmers work, because that and compromised card readers and unauthorized tap to pay events on portable card readers is a threat vector. I have heard that Google and Apple are working to roll out tap to pay from card to phone and phone to phone, which could allow folks to skim your NFC device to run an unauthorized transaction.

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2. notpushkin ◴[] No.45048340[source]
It is possible, but very unlikely. You’ll need to know where my chip is (I guess for an average thief an implant is not the first idea of where to look for an NFC card), and then get quite close to me to pull this off. Even if you do, I think it’ll take about one chargeback to get your merchant account blocked.

> roll out tap to pay from card to phone and phone to phone

It’s already here! Stripe has supported it for a while now, and I’ve seen a bunch of other payment providers have it, too: https://stripe.com/terminal/tap-to-pay

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3. aspenmayer ◴[] No.45050973[source]
> It is possible, but very unlikely.

Life, uh, finds a way, after all.

> Even if you do, I think it’ll take about one chargeback to get your merchant account blocked.

Well, someone's merchant account might be blocked, but carders don't necessarily use their own accounts; in fact, I would doubt that many do, but criminals are often underestimating risks and overestimating rewards. It's almost a truism at this point that folks who do crime are not usually acting rationally, but I don't want to stereotype.

> It’s already here! Stripe has supported it for a while now, and I’ve seen a bunch of other payment providers have it, too: https://stripe.com/terminal/tap-to-pay

Finally! This feature is going to help a lot of small businesses in isolated areas where mobile phones are the primary (or only) computing devices that are commonly owned. This can create virtuous cycles that are somewhat unpredictable, which should help make these markets more dynamic and competitive.

Thanks for posting that Stripe link. Here's some more tap to pay links I was able to find, eventually. The search terms match too much, so it is a bit hard to disambiguate legacy NFC payment flows that use traditional or modern terminals from the new device to device payment flows. I remember hearing about Stripe's work on this feature, but since I didn't hear much after that, so I wasn't sure if the feature had ever shipped. I'm glad that this tech is getting in the hands of end users.

Apple-specific roundup of apps and vendors that support the feature:

https://apps.apple.com/story/id1620226212

https://www.apple.com/business/tap-to-pay-on-iphone/

These two are available on both iOS and Android, in case that is important for folks:

https://squareup.com/us/en/payments/tap-to-pay-android

https://www.paypal.com/us/business/pos-system/tap-to-pay