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441 points longcat | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.627s | source
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roenxi ◴[] No.45038912[source]
Honest to goodness, I do most of my coding in a VM now. I don't see how the security profile of these things are tolerable.

The level of potential hostility from agents as a malware vector is really off the charts. We're entering an era where they can scan for opportunities worth >$1,000 in hostaged data, crypto keys, passwords, blackmail material or financial records without even knowing what they're looking for when they breach a box.

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fsflover ◴[] No.45039149[source]
> I do most of my coding in a VM now

Perhaps you may be interested in Qubes OS, where you do everything in VMs with a nice UX. My daily driver, can't recommend it enough.

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1. orblivion ◴[] No.45041392[source]
Yeah I use Qubes for my "serious" computing these days. It comes with performance headaches, though my laptop isn't the best.

I wonder about something like https://secureblue.dev/ though. I'm not comfortable with Fedora and last I heard it wasn't out of Beta or whatever yet. But it uses containers rather than VMs. I'm not a targeted person so I may be happy to have "good enough" security for some performance back.

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2. secureblue ◴[] No.45045190[source]
secureblue creator here :)

some corrections:

> last I heard it wasn't out of Beta or whatever yet

It is

> But it uses containers rather than VMs

It doesn't use plain containers for app isolation. We ship the OS itself as a bootable container (https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc). That doesn't mean we use or recommend using containers for application isolation. Container support is actually disabled by default via our selinux policy restricting userns usage (this can be toggled though, of course). Containers on their own don't provide sandboxing. The syscall filtering for them is extremely weak. Flatpak (which sandboxes via bubblewrap: https://github.com/containers/bubblewrap) can be configured to be reasonably good, but we still encourage the use of VMs if needed. We provide one-click tooling for easily installing virt-manager (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virt-manager) if desired.

In short though, secureblue and Qubes aren't really analogous. We have different goals and target use cases. There is even an open issue on Qubes to add a template to use secureblue as a guest: https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/9755

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3. orblivion ◴[] No.45047874[source]
I keep hearing different things about how well containers can isolate. I guess the "on their own" caveat is the important one. I don't really know how they work.

Hearing not to rely on it from the developer of secureblue is pretty strong case. Thanks.