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443 points jaredwiener | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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rideontime ◴[] No.45032301[source]
The full complaint is horrifying. This is not equivalent to a search engine providing access to information about suicide methods. It encouraged him to share these feelings only with ChatGPT, talked him out of actions which would have revealed his intentions to his parents. Praised him for hiding his drinking, thanked him for confiding in it. It groomed him into committing suicide. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QYyZnGjRgXZY6kR5FA3My1xB3a9...
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idle_zealot ◴[] No.45032582[source]
I wonder if we can shift the framing on these issues. The LLM didn't do anything, it has no agency, it can bear no responsibility. OpenAI did these things. It is accountable for what it does, regardless of the sophistication of the tools it uses to do them, and regardless of intent. OpenAI drove a boy to suicide. More than once. The law must be interpreted this way, otherwise any action can be wrapped in machine learning to avoid accountability.
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AIPedant ◴[] No.45033177[source]
Yes, if this were an adult human OpenAI employee DMing this stuff to a kid through an official OpenAI platform, then

a) the human would (deservedly[1]) be arrested for manslaughter, possibly murder

b) OpenAI would be deeply (and deservedly) vulnerable to civil liability

c) state and federal regulators would be on the warpath against OpenAI

Obviously we can't arrest ChatGPT. But nothing about ChatGPT being the culprit changes 2) and 3) - in fact it makes 3) far more urgent.

[1] It is a somewhat ugly constitutional question whether this speech would be protected if it was between two adults, assuming the other adult was not acting as a caregiver. There was an ugly case in Massachusetts involving where a 17-year-old ordered her 18-year-old boyfriend to kill himself and he did so; she was convicted of involuntary manslaughter, and any civil-liberties minded person understands the difficult issues this case raises. These issues are moot if the speech is between an adult and a child, there is a much higher bar.

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1. themafia ◴[] No.45035553{3}[source]
> It is a somewhat ugly constitutional question whether this speech would be protected

It should be stated that the majority of states have laws that make it illegal to encourage a suicide. Massachusetts was not one of them.

> and any civil-liberties minded person understands the difficult issues this case raises

He was in his truck, which was configured to pump exhaust gas into the cab, prepared to kill himself when he decided halt and exit his truck. Subsequently he had a text message conversation with the defendant who actively encouraged him to get back into the truck and finish what he had started.

It was these limited and specific text messages which caused the judge to rule that the defendant was guilty of manslaughter. Her total time served as punishment was less than one full year in prison.

> These issues are moot if the speech is between an adult and a child

They were both taking pharmaceuticals meant to manage depression but were _known_ to increase feelings of suicidal ideation. I think the free speech issue is an important criminal consideration but it steps directly past one of the most galling civil facts in the case.