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447 points stephenheron | 9 comments | | HN request time: 0.26s | source | bottom

Hi,

My daily workhorse is a M1 Pro that I purchased on release date, It has been one of the best tech purchases I have made, even now it really deals with anything I throw at it. My daily work load is regularly having a Android emulator, iOS simulator and a number of Dockers containers running simultaneously and I never hear the fans, battery life has taken a bit of a hit but it is still very respectable.

I wanted a new personal laptop, and I was debating between a MacBook Air or going for a Framework 13 with Linux. I wanted to lean into learning something new so went with the Framework and I must admit I am regretting it a bit.

The M1 was released back in 2020 and I bought the Ryzen AI 340 which is one of the newest 2025 chips from AMD, so AMD has 5 years of extra development and I had expected them to get close to the M1 in terms of battery efficiency and thermals.

The Ryzen is using a TSMC N4P process compared to the older N5 process, I managed to find a TSMC press release showing the performance/efficiency gains from the newer process: “When compared to N5, N4P offers users a reported +11% performance boost or a 22% reduction in power consumption. Beyond that, N4P can offer users a 6% increase in transistor density over N5”

I am sorely disappointed, using the Framework feels like using an older Intel based Mac. If I open too many tabs in Chrome I can feel the bottom of the laptop getting hot, open a YouTube video and the fans will often spin up.

Why haven’t AMD/Intel been able to catch up? Is x86 just not able to keep up with the ARM architecture? When can we expect a x86 laptop chip to match the M1 in efficiency/thermals?!

To be fair I haven’t tried Windows on the Framework yet it might be my Linux setup being inefficient.

Cheers, Stephen

1. ac29 ◴[] No.45021667[source]
One downside of Framework is they use DDR instead of LPDDR. This means you can upgrade or replace the RAM, but it also means memory is much slower and more power hungry.

Its also probably worth putting the laptop in "efficiency" mode (15W sustained, 25W boost per Framework). The difference in performance should be fairly negligible compared to balanced mode for most tasks and it will use less energy.

replies(3): >>45023006 #>>45023140 #>>45027758 #
2. JoshTriplett ◴[] No.45023006[source]
Hopefully Framework will move to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAMM_(memory_module) in the future. But it'd have to become something that's widely available and readily purchased.
3. ptman ◴[] No.45023140[source]
Isn't Ryzen AI (Strix Point?) using similar non-upgradeable LPDDR?
replies(1): >>45024225 #
4. Aissen ◴[] No.45024225[source]
Framework does not have any design with those LPDDR packages.
replies(1): >>45024711 #
5. TiredOfLife ◴[] No.45024711{3}[source]
https://frame.work/desktop?tab=specs

"LPDDR5x-8000"

replies(2): >>45025193 #>>45025407 #
6. Sayrus ◴[] No.45025193{4}[source]
On their desktop Ryzen AI Max, which uses kind of the same design as "Unified Memory" on Apple silicon. I think the comment you reply to refer to their laptops designs.
7. Aissen ◴[] No.45025407{4}[source]
Ok, I was wrong. Didn't think of checking the desktop designs since it was a discussion on laptops.
replies(1): >>45028570 #
8. alt227 ◴[] No.45027758[source]
However the latency of DDR is much better than LPDDR, so its pros and cons.
9. Aissen ◴[] No.45028570{5}[source]
They even decided to make me lie — twice, on the same day with their latest announcement: https://frame.work/ro/en/laptop16?tab=whats-new