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597 points classichasclass | 7 comments | | HN request time: 1.119s | source | bottom
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bob1029 ◴[] No.45011628[source]
I think a lot of really smart people are letting themselves get taken for a ride by the web scraping thing. Unless the bot activity is legitimately hammering your site and causing issues (not saying this isn't happening in some cases), then this mostly amounts to an ideological game of capture the flag. The difference being that you'll never find their flag. The only thing you win by playing is lost time.

The best way to mitigate the load from diffuse, unidentifiable, grey area participants is to have a fast and well engineered web product. This is good news, because your actual human customers would really enjoy this too.

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JohnMakin[dead post] ◴[] No.45015038[source]
[flagged]
1. dang ◴[] No.45019490[source]
Please don't cross into personal attack. You can make your substantive points without that.
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2. JohnMakin ◴[] No.45019659[source]
I disagree with that characterization of the post - merely commenting that a user that could come away with this take has never managed a web-facing service, because you'd immediately see the traffic is immense and constant, especially from crawlers. Sorry if I didn't elaborate that point clearly enough, point taken, I will more carefully craft such responses so such a point isn't misinterpreted or flagged.
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3. phyzome ◴[] No.45019706[source]
It think it's fair play to claim that someone doesn't have relevant experience when it seems very clear that they do not.
replies(1): >>45022441 #
4. dang ◴[] No.45022435[source]
I'm sure that would help, yes. Also, there's no need to phrase such a comment in terms of someone else lacking any experience of X - there are too many ways to get that wrong, and even if you're right, it can easily come across as a putdown. If you'd made your point in this case, for example, in terms of your own experience managing a web-facing service, you could have included all the same useful information, if not more!

(One other thing is that the "tell me without telling me" thing is an internet trope and the site guidelines ask people to avoid those - they tend to make for unsubstantive comments, plus they're repetitive and we're trying to avoid that here. But I just mention this for completeness - it's secondary to the other point.)

5. dang ◴[] No.45022441[source]
It's too easy for these things to seem clear and then turn out not to be right at all; moreover there's no need to get personal about these things - it has no benefit and there's an obvious cost.
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6. JohnMakin ◴[] No.45022735{3}[source]
Again, I would challenge your assertion that this was a personal attack. This comment i responded to, to me, seemed to be coming from a place that has never managed such things on a public facing web interface. it does not seem possible to me to make such a comment without such prior knowledge. I will admit that i did not articulate my comment as such,as sibling comments sufficiently have done, and it probably came off as unnecessarily snarky, and for that I apologize - I do not see it as a personal attack though, at least not on purpose, and dont see it as being flag worthy. but that’s fine, I dont mod here, and dont pretend to know how it is to mod here. so in the future i guess i’ll just avoid such impossible to discern scrutiny if i can.
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7. dang ◴[] No.45023012{4}[source]
It's possible the phrase "personal attack" means something a bit different to you than to me, because otherwise I don't think we're really disagreeing. Your good intentions are clear and I appreciate it! We can use a different phrase if you prefer.

I'd just add one other thing: there's one word in your post here which packs a huge amount of meaning and that's seemed (as in "seemed to be coming from a place [etc.]"). I can't tell you how often it happens that what seems one way to one user—even when the "seems" seems overwhelmingly likely, as in near-impossible that it could be any other way—turns out to simply be mistaken, or at least to seem quite opposite to the other person. It's thousands of times easier to make a mistake in this way than people realize; and unfortunately the cost can be quite high when that happens because the other person often feels indignant ("how dare you assume that I [etc.]").

In the present case, I don't know anything about the experience level of the user who posted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45011628, but https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45011442 was definitely posted by someone who has managed heavy-duty web facing services, and that comment says more or less the same thing as the other one.