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335 points aspenmayer | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.622s | source
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GeekyBear ◴[] No.45008439[source]
Didn't we already cross this particular Rubicon during the auto bailout a decade ago?

Other examples:

> Since the 1950s, the federal government has stepped in as a backstop for railroads, farm credit, airlines (twice), automotive companies, savings and loan companies, banks, and farmers.

Every situation has its own idiosyncrasies, but in each, the federal government intervened to stabilize a critical industry, avoiding systemic collapse that surely would have left the average taxpayer much worse off. In some instances, the treasury guaranteed loans, meaning that creditors would not suffer if the relevant industry could not generate sufficient revenue to pay back the loans, leading to less onerous interest rates.

A second option was that the government would provide loans at relatively low interest rates to ensure that industries remained solvent.

In a third option, the United States Treasury would take an ownership stake in some of these companies in what amounts to an “at-the-market” offering, in which the companies involved issue more shares at their current market price to the government in exchange for cash to continue business operations.

https://chicagopolicyreview.org/2022/08/23/piece-of-the-acti...

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themafia ◴[] No.45009730[source]
> the federal government intervened to stabilize a critical industry

They intervened to maintain the status quo. Industries are neither stable or unstable for a long period of time without external influences forcing that outcome. Short term turbulence is to be expected and is beneficial for the market as a whole.

They destroy markets and then lie to your face about it.

> industries remained solvent.

How does an _industry_ become insolvent? Only when it's nearly fully monopolized and when there is no difference between an industry and a single entity. This is where we are currently.

> more shares at their current market price to the government in exchange for cash to continue business operations.

Couldn't they just offer those shares to _any investor at all_? Why is the government special here?

> https://chicagopolicyreview.org/2022/08/23/piece-of-the-acti...

Of course. Chicago school thinking. It's infected our country for decades now. Certainly not to the benefit of it's citizens.

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stogot ◴[] No.45009902[source]
Could it be that Chicago school thinking has worked but greed & profiteering elsewhere have stolen benefits from the citizens?
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jabl ◴[] No.45012175[source]
Sounds a bit like all those no true Scotsman defenses of communism

- Communism is awesome!

- What about countries X, Y, and Z?

- Oh, that wasn't "real" communism!

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westmeal ◴[] No.45013326[source]
I mean it really wasn't. Every time a country has tried communism it's fallen straight down the despotism rabbit hole or had the government taken over by officials who wanted a much bigger piece of the pie at the cost of the constituents if you catch my drift.
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mcphage ◴[] No.45013441[source]
> Every time a country has tried communism

At what point do you decide that's an inevitable outcome, rather than an unfortunate unexpected outcome that happens every single time?

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Filligree ◴[] No.45014340[source]
Once a country that isn’t already prone to dictatorships has tried it.
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Jensson ◴[] No.45015079[source]
Communism gives politicians 100% control over the country instead of roughly half like they have in capitalist democracies, So people wont vote for communism because its autocratic.

You never want all power to be in the hands of a single group of people, capitalist democracies separates private from public, so politicians regulating companies are not the same people who are owning those companies. Communism can never work since its an autocratic system with a single player, you need multiple actors.

And yes, in some capitalist democracies company leaders are close bedfellows with politicians, we call that corruption, it isn't like that in all countries.

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1. 9rx ◴[] No.45016093[source]
> Communism gives politicians 100% control over the country

Impossible. Communism has no concept of state (nor money, nor class). That's, like, its defining feature.

Of course, you can't just wish for class, state, and money to go away. They are necessary features of our current world. Communism is the imagined outcome of what happens after we achieve post-scarcity. It is a work of science fiction. Star Trek is a more modern adaptation on the same idea.

> Communism can never work since its an autocratic system

If it were more than science fiction, it is literally the opposite, but, again, depends on post-scarcity. You are likely confusing communism with the Communist Party, who believe in an autocratic system being necessary to pave the way to achieving post-scarcity, with, on paper, a desire to get there.

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2. JoeAltmaier ◴[] No.45016121[source]
Maybe a little pedantic. Socialism then, or any existing embodiment of the first stages of Communism. Imposed by force on a population accustomed to another way. Usually accompanied by state confiscation of large businesses, the accompanied corruption, waste and ultimate food riots that often occur. Then a military takeover that's decried as crushing the utopian communist ideal! But actually, just getting everybody fed again.
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3. 9rx ◴[] No.45016205[source]
> Socialism then

While the Communist Party does believe in socialism, that does not sum it up either. That would be like trying to tie the Republican Party up in a capitalism bow. They do believe in capitalism, but so does the Democratic Party. Yet they are clearly different parties with some very different ideas.

> or any existing embodiment of the first stages of Communism.

The USA is the country most in the first stages of communism. Its technical innovation has nearly pushed food into post-scarcity territory (some argue it is already there), and it is working hard, harder than any other country, to do the same in other areas of production.

While some of your points resonate with what Trump is doing, for the most part he is an aberration and there isn't yet much indication that he — or anyone in the future — will get away with it.