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Is 4chan the perfect Pirate Bay poster child to justify wider UK site-blocking?

(torrentfreak.com)
361 points gloxkiqcza | 1 comments | 24 Aug 25 16:30 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
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torginus ◴[25 Aug 25 08:26 UTC] No.45011561[source]▶
I genuinely do not understand where how the idea of building a total surveillance police state, where all speech is monitored, can even as much as seriously be considered by an allegedly pro-democracy, pro-human rights government, much less make it into law.

Also:

Step 1: Build mass surveillance to prevent the 'bad guys' from coming into political power (its ok, we're the good guys).

Step 2: Your political opponents capitalize on your genuinely horrific overreach, and legitimize themselves in the eyes of the public as fighting against tyranny (unfortunately for you they do have a point). They promise to dismantle the system if coming to power.

Step 3: They get elected.

Step 4: They don't dismantle the system, now the people you planned to use the system against are using it against you.

Sounds brilliant, lets do this.

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specproc ◴[25 Aug 25 08:56 UTC] No.45011763[source]▶
The West aren't good guys and have never been the good guys. We talked a good talk about democracy when we had communism to compare it to, but without that to contrast with, we look increasingly like the managed democracies you see out East.
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torginus ◴[25 Aug 25 10:07 UTC] No.45012222[source]▶
What people don't get is the defining feature of the West (or more correctly advanced societies) isn't democracy, it's rule of law.

- It's why you don't have to fear getting put on a show trial if you piss off the wrong people or they just want your stuff

- It's why the rich (and not so rich) are safe storing their wealth there, knowing the bank won't collapse tomorrow, or they won't confiscate their wealth on a whim.

- It's why you know the water's safe to drink and the food's safe to eat

- It's why you can produce steel good enough so that your buildings don't collapse, and others will buy your cars know they won't fall apart, due to being relying on a shady subcontractor.

- It's why people are willing to pay taxes, knowing they get functioning public services.

Places like China are finding out why you need these things, and are building these systems so their society can succeed.

Democracy's just an (Western) artifact of enforcing and maintaining rule of law.

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shazbotter ◴[25 Aug 25 14:05 UTC] No.45013986[source]▶
> It's why you don't have to fear getting put on a show trial if you piss off the wrong people or they just want your stuff

Civil asset forfeiture suggests that's very much a thing to fear.

> It's why you know the water's safe to drink

Tell this to the people of Flint, Michigan. Or the many communities near fracking sites.

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1. PunchTunnel ◴[25 Aug 25 14:47 UTC] No.45014463[source]▶
And those exceptions largely prove the rule - the default expectation (not just desire) is that those things not happen. They still do, but it's not something that occurs to most off the tops of their heads. When you educate people on civil forfeiture you get a lot of shocked Pikachu; somewhat fewer with severe water quality issues, but I think that's mostly due to broad publication of Flint's situation in particular raising general awareness.