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361 points gloxkiqcza | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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torginus ◴[] No.45011561[source]
I genuinely do not understand where how the idea of building a total surveillance police state, where all speech is monitored, can even as much as seriously be considered by an allegedly pro-democracy, pro-human rights government, much less make it into law.

Also:

Step 1: Build mass surveillance to prevent the 'bad guys' from coming into political power (its ok, we're the good guys).

Step 2: Your political opponents capitalize on your genuinely horrific overreach, and legitimize themselves in the eyes of the public as fighting against tyranny (unfortunately for you they do have a point). They promise to dismantle the system if coming to power.

Step 3: They get elected.

Step 4: They don't dismantle the system, now the people you planned to use the system against are using it against you.

Sounds brilliant, lets do this.

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specproc ◴[] No.45011763[source]
The West aren't good guys and have never been the good guys. We talked a good talk about democracy when we had communism to compare it to, but without that to contrast with, we look increasingly like the managed democracies you see out East.
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baud147258 ◴[] No.45011981[source]
While the West aren't really the good guy, I think there is an argument that could be made that the West is the better guy. Because while government outreach like those discussed are a scary possibility in the West nowadays, in the 'East' (more like Russia & China), it is a given and there are no recourse.
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closewith ◴[] No.45012031[source]
The West is the least bad if you live in an area where Western forces aren't currently bombing you or directly supporting the people starving you to death. Then China probably seems a lot better.
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throwaway65042 ◴[] No.45012122[source]
So if Germany supports Israel bombing Gazans they are bad, but if China supports the Russian bombing of Ukrainians, suddenly it's a lot better?
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random9749832 ◴[] No.45012374[source]
False equivalence. One of them is a (failed) proxy war the other is genocide.
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AlexandrB ◴[] No.45013814[source]
> the other is genocide

How is it a genocide? It's pretty clearly a war in an urban environment where there will be a lot of civilian casualties. Was the battle of Stalingrad a "genocide" too?

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1. snapcaster ◴[] No.45014199{3}[source]
Did you ever expect to be making this kind of argument when you were growing up and learning about 20th century horrors? Or did you imagine yourself the kind of person who would have resisted in 1930s germany?