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361 points gloxkiqcza | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source
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torginus ◴[] No.45011561[source]
I genuinely do not understand where how the idea of building a total surveillance police state, where all speech is monitored, can even as much as seriously be considered by an allegedly pro-democracy, pro-human rights government, much less make it into law.

Also:

Step 1: Build mass surveillance to prevent the 'bad guys' from coming into political power (its ok, we're the good guys).

Step 2: Your political opponents capitalize on your genuinely horrific overreach, and legitimize themselves in the eyes of the public as fighting against tyranny (unfortunately for you they do have a point). They promise to dismantle the system if coming to power.

Step 3: They get elected.

Step 4: They don't dismantle the system, now the people you planned to use the system against are using it against you.

Sounds brilliant, lets do this.

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specproc ◴[] No.45011763[source]
The West aren't good guys and have never been the good guys. We talked a good talk about democracy when we had communism to compare it to, but without that to contrast with, we look increasingly like the managed democracies you see out East.
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simmerup ◴[] No.45011815[source]
So naive. Talking points from the mouthpieces of the CCP and Russia who would love us to believe we’re all the same
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specproc ◴[] No.45012094[source]
Russians of any gender or minority could vote for their representative in 1917. Women in the States only got full suffrage in 1920, African Americans in 1965. So no real pedigree there.
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AnthonyMouse ◴[] No.45012547{3}[source]
African Americans got the right to vote in the US in 1870.
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specproc ◴[] No.45012584{4}[source]
But a whole state-level legislative architecture meant that suffrage wasn't accessible nationwide till the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

Modern voter registration laws, which are gathering pace today, are largely targeted at keeping minority voters from exercising their democratic rights.

Great timeline here: https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2021/05/politics/black-v...

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1. AnthonyMouse ◴[] No.45012633{5}[source]
If you want to talk about whether something exists in practice rather than on paper then I have some news for you about Russia.
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2. specproc ◴[] No.45013100[source]
Yeah, exactly. I'm saying the UK and America have democracies of equal quality to and poorer pedigree than Russia.

Edit for clarity.

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3. AnthonyMouse ◴[] No.45020418[source]
The US has generally had elections in which whether you could run did not depend on your ideology or opposition to the current administration, and the candidate who got the most votes would get into office. Russia, not so much.