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361 points gloxkiqcza | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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torginus ◴[] No.45011561[source]
I genuinely do not understand where how the idea of building a total surveillance police state, where all speech is monitored, can even as much as seriously be considered by an allegedly pro-democracy, pro-human rights government, much less make it into law.

Also:

Step 1: Build mass surveillance to prevent the 'bad guys' from coming into political power (its ok, we're the good guys).

Step 2: Your political opponents capitalize on your genuinely horrific overreach, and legitimize themselves in the eyes of the public as fighting against tyranny (unfortunately for you they do have a point). They promise to dismantle the system if coming to power.

Step 3: They get elected.

Step 4: They don't dismantle the system, now the people you planned to use the system against are using it against you.

Sounds brilliant, lets do this.

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specproc ◴[] No.45011763[source]
The West aren't good guys and have never been the good guys. We talked a good talk about democracy when we had communism to compare it to, but without that to contrast with, we look increasingly like the managed democracies you see out East.
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throwaway2037 ◴[] No.45011926[source]

    > managed democracies you see out East
Can you name some? I am confused by this term.

Japan, Korea, Taiwan, India, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, and Indonesia all have fairly robust democracies. Yes, some of them probably look and feel different than those of NATO, but they are a great improvement over previous colonial administrations, monarchies, theocracies, and "single party democratic states" (Korea and Taiwan before late 1980s/early 1990s break-throughs).

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1. specproc ◴[] No.45012269[source]
I was thinking largely of Russia, but when it comes to internet freedoms we're absolutely heading in a China direction.

Coming at it here from a broadly UK perspective. We have:

- Very little difference between ruling parties on core issues since the seventies, I'm thinking largely on the economic and foreign policy front here.

- Prison under terrorism offenses for peaceful protest.

- Arrests for (checks notes) complaining about the management of your local school in a WhatsApp group.[1]

People who argue we're somehow better than the people we happen to be fighting need to take a long hard look around. And maybe also remember that when we're not fighting folks (e.g., Saudi, Israel) abhorrent behaviour is tolerated and supported.

[^1] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9dj1zlvxglo