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808 points shaunpud | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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mrtksn ◴[] No.45003438[source]
Traditionally in the west, censorship was through copyright rights. It wasn’t considered censorship if you do it for money and business.

Fast forward to today, Americans are pushing you for self censorship through force and denial(if you don’t speak in line with the admin, you will have hard time in your US public sector job or if you want to travel to US) and Europeans find all kind of other ways.

Tough new world order. I used to be advocating for resolution through legal/political means, but now I'm inclined to believe that the solution must be technological because everybody wants security and control. Nobody wants loose ends. Everyone is terrified of some group of people will do something to them, freedom is out of fashion and those claiming otherwise want freedom for themselves only. The guy who says want to make humans interplanetary species is posing with people detained for traveling on the planet without permission. Just forget about it.

So this website itself is about censorship, therefore people interested in this shouldn’t be using websites. New tools are needed, the mainstream will be controlled the way the local hegemony sees it fit.

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mtsr ◴[] No.45003707[source]
Interesting point. There’s wide acceptance of commercial censorship, but censorship for the common good (rightfully) feels like a slippery slope. But are they actually so different? Couldn’t the latter be done in a way just as purposeful? Or does it always lead to loss of freedom disproportional to its goals?
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Xelbair ◴[] No.45003749[source]
I see no way to have censorship and freedom and common good at the same time, so good of society is out of question - unless you don't value freedom at all.

It is a tool that entrenches current powers that be, system wise. Who decides what the "common" good is? the one in power.

It also hides societal problems and signals that could be used for policymaking.

The acceptance of censorship honestly scares me, and i grew up on stories of oppressive communist regime - full of censorship, secret police etc.

and frankly, commercial censorship might be even worse - it is a "for profit" enterprise, common good be damned.

and one last thing - even if you fully trust your current government, you're just one elections away from something vastly different. They will have access to the same powers that you've granted them(indirectly, by voting).

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immibis ◴[] No.45008988[source]
So you don't believe child porn should be illegal?

Everyone believes in censorship for the common good. People don't agree what should be censored for the common good.

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jack1243star ◴[] No.45009782{3}[source]
> So you don't believe child porn should be illegal?

The Four Horsemen of the Infocalypse strike again!

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immibis ◴[] No.45009931{4}[source]
It's a serious question - can you answer it?

If you believe nothing should be censored, then you believe child porn shouldn't be censored, so please either square that circle, or weaken the argument to "I believe this thing shouldn't be censored"

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1. jack1243star ◴[] No.45010628{5}[source]
Child abuse is already illegal. Law enforcement tracks down creator? Good. Court orders website owner to take down material? Good. ISP preemptively decides what to block? Bad.

CP is often used as an "I win" card in this kind of arguments, as it can stir up emotions in the general public, in favor of ever expanding scope of surveillance and censorship. We should be extra aware of this.

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2. immibis ◴[] No.45012182[source]
You still haven't answered the question that I actually asked.

I didn't say "should child abuse be illegal?". I said "should child porn be illegal?".

You said it's good if a court orders the website owner to block the material, i.e. censors it, so I assume you're pro-censorship for child porn and likely also support jail time for those who possess it.

In which case, please do not claim to oppose all censorship.