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808 points shaunpud | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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ulrischa ◴[] No.45003303[source]
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mtsr ◴[] No.45003337[source]
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jddj ◴[] No.45003346[source]
I didn't get the impression they were making any value judgement
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mtsr ◴[] No.45003351[source]
You’re right. I guess I am. I’m pretty happy RT is blocked.
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jstanley ◴[] No.45003440[source]
Why?
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mtsr ◴[] No.45003532[source]
Because it’s turning out that too many people are susceptible to (this specific, but also other) propaganda.
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Amezarak ◴[] No.45003788[source]
If you think the masses are too susceptible to unapproved propaganda to the extent we have to censor it, it’s not clear to me that you can consistently believe democracy should be your form of government, as opposed to some sort of rule by experts/the rich/the educated/aristocrats/something else. It’s effectively saying the masses get a choice unless it’s the wrong choice.

I believe in democracy. If people want to listen to ridiculous and false Russian propaganda or support Russia against Ukraine they should be able to without hindrance, even if their politicians or the better informed don’t like it. It’s their job to persuade their fellows. They shouldn’t get to declare their beliefs are right and beyond democratic contestation.

Sometimes democracies make really bad decisions. Alciabiades conned the Athenians into the disastrous Sicilian Expedition. That’s the tradeoff you get for having a democracy. Declaring some subjects out of bounds is taking away democracy and installing something else instead, with those tradeoffs, that we as a society decided we weren’t going to make, without consensus.

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mtsr ◴[] No.45003924[source]
Some people mainly come to political positions for emotional reasons rather than substantive ones. These people are generally easy to reach for populists and propagandists.

Many of the real problems in society, unfortunately, have no easy solutions and require very substantive evaluation, weighing expert opinions, etc. In the current environment it has become very hard to get a lot of people to even consider these or, if they want, elect someone to do it in their stead.

TLDR: populism + propaganda causes significant dysfunction in democracies, especially ones that aren’t winner-takes-all.

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1. Amezarak ◴[] No.45003964{3}[source]
None of these problems are new. The problems have been well-understood since the founding of all Western democracies and we accepted that trade off, as we decided the alternative systems were all worse. You can find this very debate in newspapers and CC notes (in America)at the time, about “false rumors” stirred up by “designing men.”

These are all the exact same arguments made by regimes like the CCP as to why their authoritarian methods are necessary. It’s all for the public order and the public good as unfortunately, many people are stirred up even against their own interest by meddlers, demagogues, and foreign interests. Fortunately, the CCP knows better, as the Party makes sure that the experts are making decisions based on all the data.

I would prefer to live in a democracy, and it astounds me to see people in the West repeating word for word what Russians and Chinese regime apologists say about their governments, all while explaining it’s all necessary to protect democracy.