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    U.S. government takes 10% stake in Intel

    (www.cnbc.com)
    607 points givemeethekeys | 14 comments | 22 Aug 25 21:01 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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    cuttothechase ◴[22 Aug 25 21:31 UTC] No.44990065[source]▶
    Genuine question-

    How does Govt picking winners and losers going to help?

    Intel is no Too big to fail Bank. Why save Intel of all chip manufacturers? Wouldnt it be like 25 years too late, with Intel and its heydays !?

    Would Govt now ensure parity by investing in "marquee" entities across different industrial domains?

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    miohtama ◴[22 Aug 25 21:52 UTC] No.44990294[source]▶
    There is only 1 winner and 1 loser: Intel.

    It's the only chip manufacturer "left" in the US. The argument is national security: the US expects China to invade Taiwan and this will kill TSMC in the process.

    Whether this will happen or not can be debated, but this is what the government expects.

    replies(10): >>44990357 #>>44990361 #>>44990445 #>>44990780 #>>44990783 #>>44991062 #>>44991225 #>>44991269 #>>44991441 #>>44991698 #
    1. pixelatedindex ◴[22 Aug 25 22:08 UTC] No.44990445[source]▶
    > the US expects China to invade Taiwan and this will kill TSMC in the process.

    Would it though? The TSMC foundries are pretty much in every continent. Are they just going to stop operating if this happens? Because that seems akin to killing a golden goose.

    Also what is up with Global Foundries? I don’t hear a peep about them.

    replies(5): >>44990667 #>>44990713 #>>44991898 #>>44992648 #>>44998872 #
    2. chneu ◴[22 Aug 25 22:28 UTC] No.44990667[source]▶
    GF is like a decade behind in research. Without years to ramp up and update their fabs they're not relevant.
    replies(1): >>44991567 #
    3. internetter ◴[22 Aug 25 22:32 UTC] No.44990713[source]▶
    Global Foundries is on 12nm. TSMC is at 3.
    replies(1): >>44991022 #
    4. carom ◴[22 Aug 25 23:07 UTC] No.44991022[source]▶
    TSMC gets their machines from ASML who licenses their technology from the Department of Energy. The US will be OK.
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    5. chrsw ◴[22 Aug 25 23:35 UTC] No.44991263{3}[source]▶
    If (or when) China invades Taiwan we will be better off than Taiwan but I wouldn't call us "OK" at that point. That will be a major disruption.

    It will take decades for the US to get where Taiwan is now in semiconductor manufacturing, if ever. It's not just about building the most advanced chip factory. It's about re-aligning the entire nation's value system and culture to allow such development to happen in the first place.

    We complain about the money we spend already. And now we're supposed to subsidize an entire industry to the point where we can build the most complex machines known to civilization at scale in a time-frame that matters to a global conflict that's potentially approaching soon? I don't see it.

    replies(1): >>44993753 #
    6. mkl ◴[22 Aug 25 23:44 UTC] No.44991333{3}[source]▶
    If it was that simple, Intel, Samsung, etc. wouldn't be behind TSMC. There's a lot more to it than just buying an ASML machine.
    7. _zoltan_ ◴[22 Aug 25 23:52 UTC] No.44991411{3}[source]▶
    This shows me you are not aware of just how much work goes into EUV and beyond besides simply buying the machine.
    8. etempleton ◴[23 Aug 25 00:08 UTC] No.44991567[source]▶
    Probably closer to two decades behind at this point.
    9. hajile ◴[23 Aug 25 01:00 UTC] No.44991898[source]▶
    I believe the most modern TSMC fabs outside of Taiwan are in Arizona. They are just moving to 4nm which is nearly 5 years old and just a revision of 5nm which is getting close to 7 years old.

    TSMC aims to have N3 in Arizona by 2028 at the earliest which is 6 years after it first released. By that time, TSMC will have released N3X, N2, N2P, N2X, A16, and A14.

    TSMC is heavily sponsored by the Taiwanese government and was created with the express purpose of making Taiwan so valuable that the West would be forced to defend them against China. Moving newer processes out of the country is against their national interests and they've made it clear that there's no plan to do that.

    replies(1): >>45003760 #
    10. onepointsixC ◴[23 Aug 25 02:51 UTC] No.44992648[source]▶
    Outside of Taiwan TSMC foundries are just pumping out already developed non leading edge fab processes. Everyone who matters to TSMC tech development is in Taiwan.
    11. voidfunc ◴[23 Aug 25 06:29 UTC] No.44993753{4}[source]▶
    > It's about re-aligning the entire nation's value system and culture to allow such development to happen in the first place.

    It's taken about 8 years to realign the US from a democracy to a fascist regime, something that was nearly unthinkable. This isn't a hard problem with the right propaganda and manipulation.

    replies(1): >>44999828 #
    12. HDThoreaun ◴[23 Aug 25 20:27 UTC] No.44998872[source]▶
    The vast majority of TSMC production is in taiwan. If china invades the fabs will be destroyed. They pretty much would be forced to just stop operating, yes.
    13. chrsw ◴[23 Aug 25 23:06 UTC] No.44999828{5}[source]▶
    Yes but it's easy to go from democracy to fascism. It's harder going the other way. It's like going from a clean house to a messy house is much easier than going from a filthy house to a tidy house.
    14. s3p ◴[24 Aug 25 12:31 UTC] No.45003760[source]▶
    The Arizona fab has been mostly a letdown so far and it's not even doing e2e manufacturing - all parts get shipped back to Taiwan for final assembly.