←back to thread

Go is still not good

(blog.habets.se)
644 points ustad | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.331s | source
Show context
blixt ◴[] No.44983245[source]
I've been using Go more or less in every full-time job I've had since pre-1.0. It's simple for people on the team to pick up the basics, it generally chugs along (I'm rarely worried about updating to latest version of Go), it has most useful things built in, it compiles fast. Concurrency is tricky but if you spend some time with it, it's nice to express data flow in Go. The type system is most of the time very convenient, if sometimes a bit verbose. Just all-around a trusty tool in the belt.

But I can't help but agree with a lot of points in this article. Go was designed by some old-school folks that maybe stuck a bit too hard to their principles, losing sight of the practical conveniences. That said, it's a _feeling_ I have, and maybe Go would be much worse if it had solved all these quirks. To be fair, I see more leniency in fixing quirks in the last few years, like at some point I didn't think we'd ever see generics, or custom iterators, etc.

The points about RAM and portability seem mostly like personal grievances though. If it was better, that would be nice, of course. But the GC in Go is very unlikely to cause issues in most programs even at very large scale, and it's not that hard to debug. And Go runs on most platforms anyone could ever wish to ship their software on.

But yeah the whole error / nil situation still bothers me. I find myself wishing for Result[Ok, Err] and Optional[T] quite often.

replies(18): >>44983384 #>>44983427 #>>44983465 #>>44983479 #>>44983531 #>>44983616 #>>44983802 #>>44983872 #>>44984433 #>>44985251 #>>44985721 #>>44985839 #>>44986166 #>>44987302 #>>44987396 #>>45002271 #>>45002492 #>>45018751 #
kace91 ◴[] No.44983531[source]
My feeling is that in terms of developer ergonomics, it nailed the “very opinionated, very standard, one way of doing things” part. It is a joy to work on a large microservices architecture and not have a different style on each repo, or avoiding formatting discussions because it is included.

The issue is that it was a bit outdated in the choice of _which_ things to choose as the one Go way. People expect a map/filter method rather than a loop with off by one risks, a type system with the smartness of typescript (if less featured and more heavily enforced), error handling is annoying, and so on.

I get that it’s tough to implement some of those features without opening the way to a lot of “creativity” in the bad sense. But I feel like go is sometimes a hard sell for this reason, for young devs whose mother language is JavaScript and not C.

replies(3): >>44983704 #>>44986562 #>>44991271 #
dkarl ◴[] No.44986562[source]
> The issue is that it was a bit outdated in the choice of _which_ things to choose as the one Go way

I agree with this. I feel like Go was a very smart choice to create a new language to be easy and practical and have great tooling, and not to be experimental or super ambitious in any particular direction, only trusting established programming patterns. It's just weird that they missed some things that had been pretty well hashed out by 2009.

Map/filter/etc. are a perfect example. I remember around 2000 the average programmer thought map and filter were pointlessly weird and exotic. Why not use a for loop like a normal human? Ten years later the average programmer was like, for loops are hard to read and are perfect hiding places for bugs, I can't believe we used to use them even for simple things like map, filter, and foreach.

By 2010, even Java had decided that it needed to add its "stream API" and lambda functions, because no matter how awful they looked when bolted onto Java, it was still an improvement in clarity and simplicity.

Somehow Go missed this step forward the industry had taken and decided to double down on "for." Go's different flavors of for are a significant improvement over the C/C++/Java for loop, but I think it would have been more in line with the conservative, pragmatic philosophy of Go to adopt the proven solution that the industry was converging on.

replies(1): >>44989361 #
throwaway920102 ◴[] No.44989361[source]
Go Generics provides all of this. Prior to generics, you could have filter, map, reduce etc but you needed to implement them yourself once in a library/pkg and do it for each type.

After Go added generics in version 1.18, you can just import someone else's generic implementations of whatever of these functions you want and use them all throughout your code and never think about it. It's no longer a problem.

replies(1): >>44989778 #
1. dkarl ◴[] No.44989778[source]
The language might permit it now, but it isn't designed for it. I think if the Go designers had intended for map, filter, et al to replace most for loops, they would have designed a more concise syntax for anonymous functions. Something more along the lines of:

    colors := items.Filter(_.age > 20).Map(_.color)
Instead of

    colors := items.Filter(func(x Item){ return x.age > 20 }).Map(func(x Item){ return x.color })
which as best as I can tell is how you'd express the same thing in Go if you had a container type with Map and Filter defined.