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280 points dargscisyhp | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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mehulashah ◴[] No.44765977[source]
This is a tragedy. Our pre-eminence as a scientific and industrial powerhouse that really began post WWII is now disintegrating because of the actions of a few. The funding being pulled from Terence Tao and his institute without due process is not the start, it's merely one casualty among many that began at the start of this administration. This is like cutting one's nose to spite one's face.
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austhrow743 ◴[] No.44766166[source]
Punishing urban intellectuals for being urban intellectuals appears to be a common theme in a lot of right wing American messaging and the Republican Party won the popular vote.

You can’t put this on a few. It’s the genuine desire of the American voter.

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wisty ◴[] No.44766451[source]
They think urban intellectuals have a fair bit of power.

They also think they are not always correct, not always unbiased, and possibly not always honest; and the bias tends to be towards either things that benefit the urban elite, or "luxury beliefs" that have disproportionate costs on other people.

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eptcyka ◴[] No.44766780[source]
Are you talking about math PhDs? What power do they have, politically?
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wisty ◴[] No.44772003[source]
Why suggest math PhDs unless it's in bad faith?

Wouldn't economics and sociology PhDs have both more room for bias in their work, and tend to have power over the economy and society?

"Experts" have a lot of sway over the public sector and legal system.

The public sector has increased to take up a huge percentage of GDP, and the legal sector has also arguably expanded a lot in power.

The perception is that a huge amount of public spending is controlled by the public service, and they tend to defer to academics if the executive keeps them in line.

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jaredklewis ◴[] No.44774438[source]
> Why suggest math PhDs unless it's in bad faith?

Maybe because this thread is about a math PhD (Terrence Tao)?

I’m also surprised you believe academic economists have much power. These days, most politicians from both parties in the US proudly reject more or less all of mainstream economics. Sometimes, the work of academic economists can have some small influence on decisions at the Fed, so I guess that is something.

Sociologists don’t even have that. They’re more or less just talking to themselves.

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wisty ◴[] No.44780006[source]
If only politicians mattered why doesn't Trump sack virtually everyone in DC?

The government is a large organisation and its middle management is both vast and powerful.

And this huge middle management is obliged (arguably) to listen to academia unless otherwise instructed by politicians (who are too few in number and mostly not talented in steering large organisations so much as they are used to just going with the flow and taking the credit).

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1. jaredklewis ◴[] No.44780951{3}[source]
Do you have some specific examples of this phenomenon you would be willing to share? You seem to feel that academics have a lot of influence in the world, but I am extremely skeptical of this hypothesis. IME academics are generally ignored except when they are saying something we like. Or the corollary: we go find the academic that is saying the thing we like and ignore all the other ones.

If we take specifically the field of economics for a moment (since I know a bit about this one), what are examples of "middle managers" sticking to the recommendations of economists?

Because it's not hard to make a list of ideas that economists generally love and pretty much everyone else hates: paying organ donors, carbon taxes, land value taxes, charging for public parking, getting rid of minimum parking requirements, allowing surge pricing of various kinds, unilateral free trade, cash transfers instead of in-kind benefits, and abolishing the mortgage interest deduction. Honorable mention to congestion pricing, which economists of course love, but is interesting because support for it actually went up in NYC after implementation; support was pretty low before implementation.

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2. wisty ◴[] No.44791926[source]
I'm partly just explaining what Trump supporters think.

The lump of gdp fallacy in which an urban Cafe is equal to a factory is maybe something I think is an issue?

Trump supporters disagree with economists on Carbon taxes, low tarriffs, and immigration.

And even economists to some extent pick and choose the issues they push from the less biased body of work they produce.

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3. jaredklewis ◴[] No.44799398[source]
Ok sure but can you point to even one instance anywhere of the will of politicians being subverted by “middle managers” (as you say) listening to academic economists? It doesn’t happen because no one listens to academics.

I’m confronting your assertion that academics have power in our society and you haven’t put forward any arguments that they do