Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

I would guess Finnish deaths are inflated by the rural rallying culture though, hard to compare

Yes, in rural Finland 17-year-old boys who just got their license regularly end up killing themselves and their friends by reckless driving.

I believe there is cultural issue with boys’ upbringing. Recently my 8-year-old daughter was spending a week with her mother’s relatives in middle Finland. One day she sent me a picture of an old Volvo in a ditch. “Guess what dad, my cousin drove it off the road and I was in the car!”

The cousin in question is ten years old. I was absolutely furious that they let the boy drive a real car and that my little girl was in it with no adult supervision. But my in-laws didn’t see a problem: “He was only driving on a private road — there’s no risk — everybody does it here — this is the best way to get the boys used to engines and driving.”

In my opinion this is how you train teenagers to think that safety and rules don’t matter, and that they’re invulnerable. But I can’t change these people’s views, so all I can do is try to make sure my daughter doesn’t ride with her cousins from now on.

TBF, that happens in the UK as well.

At least your daughter had a good time.

10 is plenty old enough to drive under supervision. We used to send people to war at 16.

The idea of stopping people from driving until 18 is infantilisation.

There's a big difference between driving a car around the farm at 20kmph to collect wood and flipping your dad's Volvo into a ditch. We were driving from a relatively young age, maybe 13 or 14, but only in a paddock and with some degree of adult supervision.

Read your comment. Read the parent.

Yeah, we used to kill kids. Personally I think we shouldn’t have.

We also used to send children to work in the mines. That does not make it a good idea.

There’s a reason rural folks have a higher fatality rate. That said, at least in the US, there’s the presumption that those who live more rural are more rugged, capable, and harder working.

I used to live in Chicago and SF. I’ve since moved to rural Tennessee. I can tell you everyone, including my kids, now have learned to drive our tractor. Granted I’m with them, but we had my 4-5 year old moving hay and they were helping me change oil.

I understand the concern, but everyone learns through doing. There’s definitely danger in that, and you should try to limit risk. At the same time; not teaching them is also high risk in that environment, as they’ll do it anyway with friends later.

There's definitely a cultural difference but whether it's an issue is debatable.

I can definitely see why you’re using a throwaway account.

For children working in the mines the choice was not between working or chilling in the mall. It was work or imminent death from starvation. So, yes, it was a good idea to work. It still is in less prosperous parts of the world.

Finnish rural boys rarely have other personality traits than their favourite car brand. It’s usually BMW or Volvo, and friendships must follow the shared brand following. Someone driving a Nissan Micra should starve to death, according to both camps.

It's hive mind in tech too. Have you met our lord and savior Claude Code?

A car is not a tractor. The risks are really very different, and generally don't relate to speed.

> those who live more rural are more rugged, capable, and harder working.

As someone who grew up rural and still has roots but moved to the city for work, this holds with a high probability.

The urban America equivalent are teenage to twenty something males crashing Dodge Chargers at high speeds at 2:00am

> this is the best way to get the boys used to engines and driving.

Because that Y chromosome makes all the difference. /s

I saw tourists parking cars in New Zealand and, because the road is on an incline sideways, some cars would fall into a ditch.

Was the car driven recklessly or was it a parking/reversing mistake? This kind of thinking just brings unnecessary racism.

You would think that UK would have a lower rate of traffic incidents with it's "safe" approach to driving but numbers speak the opposite.

Sounds like Windows and Linux users talking about Macs

In the UK I think this would be illegal. Children must be at least 13 to operate some limited machinery.

Still, farmers think they know better and about one child a year dies from it.

In the South, this is an issue everywhere, not just cities. Any vehicle, even mildly capable, will be wrecked by young men traveling way too fast, on dangerous roads, and often inebriated.

Rural superiority complex is very real. Rural people can be extremely condescending and openly feel much superior then people in the cities.

Large politics is such that insulting city people is completely acceptable, but dare you say anything about rural people.

Even still, I suspect tractor deaths and injuries are far far higher per driver than for cars. Tractors are very capable, but it's also very very easy to get in a dangerous situation with them.

or Linux and Macs users talking about Windows, or Macs and Windows users talking about Linux

Rural Finnish driving culture is insane, to the extent that drunk driving often is considered socially acceptable, and something every kid does. Luckily, the bulk of the incidents dont involve drivers hurting others.

The country road rally drivers are rarely as bad as busy hatchback-drivers on a main road though. Especially the ones with kids in the back and on their way home during rush hours.

Favourite tractor brand is usually more important, though. :D

Can the urge to drive (fast) be channeled into cart racing? Or whatever the amateur rally circuit equivalent is?