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Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

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280 points dargscisyhp | 1 comments | 02 Aug 25 06:28 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
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francasso ◴[02 Aug 25 09:09 UTC] No.44765919[source]▶
Maybe it's time to move to Europe or China
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numbers_guy ◴[02 Aug 25 09:18 UTC] No.44765967[source]▶
There is nowhere to run and hide. Europe is worse than the US on this front. China also demands party loyalty. In a sense this is just the human condition. The ruling faction demands loyalty. Only a very advanced human civilization could move past that and allow criticism of the ruling class. Maybe the US had achieved that for a brief movement in the past or maybe it was just an illusion.

EDIT: For people wondering why I think it's worse in Europe, it's because in Europe the ruling class and the universities are on the same side. And when I say Europe, I mean UK, France and Germany.

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A_D_E_P_T ◴[02 Aug 25 09:42 UTC] No.44766094[source]▶
I'm in Europe. It's not even close to being worse than the US on that front. Places like the Fraunhofer Institute and the Max Planck Institute are perpetually well-funded, and are largely unaffected by politics. Good places to do research.
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FirmwareBurner ◴[02 Aug 25 09:56 UTC] No.44766184[source]▶
>Fraunhofer Institute and the Max Planck Institute are perpetually well-funded, and are largely unaffected by politics

Oh, so I can freely go up against the German government's policies and have my career in academia unaffected and keep my government funding?

I lived in Germany and don't remember people or organisations ever being able to break government rules with no consequences (unless they had high friends in politics).

Something smells here.

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davrosthedalek ◴[02 Aug 25 10:00 UTC] No.44766214[source]▶
As long as you are not a "Beamte", i.e. a special case of state employee, yes.
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FirmwareBurner ◴[02 Aug 25 10:05 UTC] No.44766248[source]▶
Sorry I don't buy it. Which examples are there of academics going against the government policies and still keeping their jobs and funds?

I lived in Germany and the moment you don't do what the government says you get the full shaft. Nobody let's you rebel against the government with no consequences, not in US, not in Germany, not in UK, nowhere.

People painting Germany like a bastion of free speech are coping hard. Only if you consider free speech doing and saying only what the government says.

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A_D_E_P_T ◴[02 Aug 25 10:16 UTC] No.44766314[source]▶
It's hard to prove a negative. Can you show us an example of anything like what's happening at UCLA (collective punishment of an entire institution) or an example of an individual professor being harshly penalized or sanctioned for expressing personal political opinions?
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FirmwareBurner ◴[02 Aug 25 10:24 UTC] No.44766353[source]▶
Don't spin this around, what I asked you is not a negative.

People here argued that the US is fascist because in academia you can't get away with breaking governments rules getting you defunded and pointing at Germany for being superior in this regard.

So then I asked for proof that in other countries you can get away in academia with breaking the government's rules and not get defunded. It really is that simple.

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1. A_D_E_P_T ◴[02 Aug 25 11:02 UTC] No.44766564[source]▶
It's hard to prove what you're asking because it's intrinsically not newsworthy -- whereas the reverse is. Surely if it's so bad in Germany, you should be able to dig up an example or two?