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253 points pabs3 | 4 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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greatgib ◴[] No.44601921[source]
It's totally crazy that we have to go through Microsoft to sign things to be able to have our OS run on third parties computers, and that Microsoft manage to win about this so easily as it was never seriously challenged.
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sugarpimpdorsey ◴[] No.44602288[source]
It makes more sense if you view it for what it is: Honest Satya's Certificate Authority.

Microsoft showed they can semi-competently run a PKI. The end.

Now had the Linux folks stepped up to the plate early on, instead of childishly acting like Secure Boot was the computing antichrist, the story might be different. But they didn't. We only have shim because some people at Red Hat had the common sense to play ball.

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ACCount36 ◴[] No.44602526[source]
Secure Boot is the computing antichrist, and Linux folk were 100% right to rally against it. As well as a whole bunch of other "Trusted Computing" garbage.
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froh ◴[] No.44602678[source]
mind to elaborate?

I'd love to know if my machine has been compromised with early boot stage "meta-hypervisor" or not.

the promise of secure boot and trusted computing is backdoor-free boot.

what is in your eyes evil and garbage about that?

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ACCount36 ◴[] No.44602710[source]
Who controls the fucking certs?

"My computer was compromised with an early boot stage hypervisor backdoor" happens basically never. It's an attack vector that exists almost entirely in the minds of infosec fucktards.

"My brand new device ships with vendor-selected boot certificates that can't be changed, can't be overridden, and control what software I can install onto my own device" happens with every other smartphone, gaming console, car, and even some PCs.

"Trusted Computing" is, and always was, about making sure that the user doesn't actually own his device. This is the real, tangible attack vector - and the target of this attack is user freedom and choice.

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flexagoon ◴[] No.44602865[source]
> Who controls the fucking certs?

Cert authorities, just like in case of SSL. Is SSL also an evil technology designed to take away freedom from the internet?

> vendor-selected boot certificates that can't be changed

That's a lie. Certain drivers are signed with a specific key, and they can only be used when this key is installed, which makes sense. The same thing happens with SSL - if you remove pre-installed CA certs from your device, HTTPS sites will stop working. However, nothing is stopping you from adding your own keys to the system and signing your own software with it.

> happens with every other smartphone, gaming console, car, and even some PCs

How often are you trying to install custom drivers on a smartphone, console or car? Why would you have secure boot issues on those?

> the target of this attack is user freedom and choice.

Which is exactly why users have the freedom and choice to just disable Secure Boot?

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ACCount36 ◴[] No.44602927[source]
Take an iPhone or a Switch. Then disable Secure Boot on it. Good fucking luck.

The reason why Apple or Nintendo go out of their way to make this impossible isn't user security. It's the "security" of their 30% App Store cut.

Out in the wild, Secure Boot exists to "secure" vendor revenue streams - and PCs are the only devices where it's even possible for the user to disable it. Most of the time.

What's happening in smartphone space is enough of a reason to treat Secure Boot on PC like an ongoing attack. The only reason why there are still legitimate ways to disable or adjust it is that most PC manufacturers don't have their own app store.

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tempnew ◴[] No.44603888[source]
Freedom vs safety should be contextual. I’m not free if I don’t have choices and secure boot is a choice. Having it improves both my freedom and security somewhat. I want both unlocked and locked hardware, for different purposes.
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1. ACCount36 ◴[] No.44614134[source]
Secure Boot is almost never a choice. It's just something a hardware vendor hits you with, whether you like it or not.
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2. tempnew ◴[] No.44615464[source]
It’s a choice I make all the time. I disabled it on one of my computers just last night. I’ll probably turn it back on today. It’s easy to toggle.
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3. ACCount36 ◴[] No.44616093[source]
Now do that on your smartphone. And then on your smart watch. And then on your gaming console.

Secure Boot being "a choice" on PC is an exception, not the norm. On just about every other device, the vendor is going to take a boot, shove it up your ass, and say "it's there to make your ass more secure" if you complain.

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4. Y_Y ◴[] No.44619492{3}[source]
Secure Ass-Boot is revolutionizing device security.