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LLM Inevitabilism

(tomrenner.com)
1616 points SwoopsFromAbove | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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JimmaDaRustla ◴[] No.44571157[source]
The author seems to imply that the "framing" of an argument is done so in bad faith in order to win an argument but only provides one-line quotes where there is no contextual argument.

This tactic by the author is a straw-man argument - he's framing the position of tech leaders and our acceptance of it as the reason AI exists, instead of being honest, which is that they were simply right in their predictions: AI was inevitable.

The IT industry is full of pride and arrogance. We deny the power of AI and LLMs. I think that's fair, I welcome the pushback. But the real word the IT crowd needs to learn is "denialism" - if you still don't see how LLMs is changing our entire industry, you haven't been paying attention.

Edit: Lots of denialists using false dichotomy arguments that my opinion is invalid because I'm not producing examples and proof. I guess I'll just leave this: https://tools.simonwillison.net/

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jdiff ◴[] No.44571266[source]
The IT industry is also full of salesmen and con men, both enjoy unrealistic exaggeration. Your statements would not be out of place 20 years ago when the iPhone dropped. Your statements would not be out of place 3 years ago before every NFT went to 0. LLMs could hit an unsolvably hard wall next year and settle into a niche of utility. AI could solve a lengthy list of outstanding architectural and technical problems and go full AGI next year.

If we're talking about changing the industry, we should see some clear evidence of that. But despite extensive searching myself and after asking many proponents (feel free to jump in here), I can't find a single open source codebase, actively used in production, and primarily maintained and developed with AI. If this is so foundationally groundbreaking, that should be a clear signal. Personally, I would expect to see an explosion of this even if the hype is taken extremely conservatively. But I can't even track down a few solid examples. So far my searching only reveals one-off pull requests that had to be laboriously massaged into acceptability.

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JimmaDaRustla ◴[] No.44571653{3}[source]
> LLMs could hit an unsolvably hard wall next year and settle into a niche of utility

LLMs in their current state have integrated into the workflows for many, many IT roles. They'll never be niche, unless governing bodies come together to kill them.

> I can't find a single open source codebase, actively used in production, and primarily maintained and developed with AI

Straw man argument - this is in no way a metric for validating the power of LLMs as a tool for IT roles. Can you not find open source code bases that leverage LLMS because you haven't looked, or because you can't tell the difference between human and LLM code?

> If this is so foundationally groundbreaking, that should be a clear signal.

As I said, you haven't been paying attention.

Denialism - the practice of denying the existence, truth, or validity of something despite proof or strong evidence that it is real, true, or valid

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1. jdiff ◴[] No.44572950{4}[source]
> LLMs in their current state have integrated into the workflows for many, many IT roles. They'll never be niche, unless governing bodies come together to kill them.

Having a niche is different from being niche. I also strongly believe you overstate how integrated they are.

> Straw man argument - this is in no way a metric for validating the power of LLMs as a tool for IT roles. Can you not find open source code bases that leverage LLMS because you haven't looked, or because you can't tell the difference between human and LLM code?

As mentioned, I have looked. I told you what I found when I looked. And I've invited others to look. I also invited you. This is not a straw man argument, it's making a prediction to test a hypothesis and collecting evidence. I know I am not all seeing, which is why I welcome you to direct my eyes. With how strong your claims and convictions are, it should be easy.

Again: You claim that AI is such a productivity boost that it will rock the IT industry to its foundations. We cannot cast our gaze on closed source code, but there are many open source devs who are AI-friendly. If AI truly is a productivity boost, some of them should be maintaining widely-used production code in order to take advantage of that.

If you're too busy to do anything but discuss, I would instead invite you to point out where my reasoning goes so horrendously off track that such examples are apparently so difficult to locate, not just for me, but for others. If one existed, I would additionally expect that it would be held up as an example and become widely known for it with as often as this question gets asked. But the world's full of unexpected complexities, if there's something that's holding AI back from seeing adoption reflected in the way I predict, that's also interesting and worth discussion.