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LLM Inevitabilism

(tomrenner.com)
1616 points SwoopsFromAbove | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source
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mg ◴[] No.44568158[source]
In the 90s a friend told me about the internet. And that he knows someone who is in a university and has access to it and can show us. An hour later, we were sitting in front of a computer in that university and watched his friend surfing the web. Clicking on links, receiving pages of text. Faster than one could read. In a nice layout. Even with images. And links to other pages. We were shocked. No printing, no shipping, no waiting. This was the future. It was inevitable.

Yesterday I wanted to rewrite a program to use a large library that would have required me to dive deep down into the documentation or read its code to tackle my use case. As a first try, I just copy+pasted the whole library and my whole program into GPT 4.1 and told it to rewrite it using the library. It succeeded at the first attempt. The rewrite itself was small enough that I could read all code changes in 15 minutes and make a few stylistic changes. Done. Hours of time saved. This is the future. It is inevitable.

PS: Most replies seem to compare my experience to experiences that the responders have with agentic coding, where the developer is iteratively changing the code by chatting with an LLM. I am not doing that. I use a "One prompt one file. No code edits." approach, which I describe here:

https://www.gibney.org/prompt_coding

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baxuz ◴[] No.44568473[source]
The thing is that the data from actual research doesn't support your anecdotal proof of quality:

- https://metr.org/blog/2025-07-10-early-2025-ai-experienced-o...

- https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/29/ai_agents_fail_a_lot/

But more importantly, it makes you stupid:

- https://www.404media.co/microsoft-study-finds-ai-makes-human...

- https://archive.is/M3lCG

And it's an unsustainable bubble and wishful thinking, much like crypto:

- https://dmitriid.com/everything-around-llms-is-still-magical...

So while it may be a fun toy for senior devs that know what to look for, it actually makes them slower and stupider, making them progressively less capable to do their job and apply critical thinking skills.

And as for juniors — they should steer clear from AI tools as they can't assess the quality of the output, they learn nothing, and they also get critical thinking skills impaired.

So with that in mind — Who is the product (LLM coding tools) actually for, and what is its purpose?

I'm not even going into the moral, ethical, legal, social and ecological implications of offloading your critical thinking skills to a mega-corporation, which can only end up like https://youtu.be/LXzJR7K0wK0

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wilson090 ◴[] No.44568567{3}[source]
These studies profoundly miss the mark and were clearly written for engagement/to push a certain view. It's abundantly clear to any developer who has used LLMs that they are a useful tool and have turned the corner in terms of the value they're able to provide vs their limitations.
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cess11 ◴[] No.44568599{4}[source]
Not to me. I have also not seen any signs that this technology has had macroeconomic effects, and I don't know of any developers in meatspace that are impressed.

To me it seems like a bunch of religious freaks and psychopaths rolled out a weird cult, in part to plaster over layoffs for tax reasons.

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wilson090 ◴[] No.44568683{5}[source]
The anti-LLM crowd on HN is far more cultish. I don't know why some developers insist on putting their head in the sand on this.
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1. cess11 ◴[] No.44569269{6}[source]
On what, exactly? Where are the measurable gains?

I've tried out a lot of angles on LLM:s and besides first pass translations and audio transcriptions I have a hard time finding any use for them that is a good fit for me. In coding I've already generated scaffolding and CRUD stuff, and typically write my code in a way that makes certain errors impossible where I actually put my engineering while the assistant insists on adding checks for those errors anyway.

That's why I gave up on Aider and pushing contexts into LLM:s in Zed. As far as I can tell this is an unsolvable problem currently, the assistant would need to have a separate logic engine on the AST and basically work as a slow type checker.

Fancy autocomplete commonly insists on using variables that are previously unused or make overly complicated suggestions. This goes for both local models and whatever Jetbrains pushed out in IDEA Ultimate. One could argue that I'm doing it wrong but I like declaring my data first and then write the logic which means there might be three to ten data points lingering unused in the beginning of a function while I'm writing my initial implementation. I've tried to wriggle around this by writing explicit comments and so on but it doesn't seem to work. To me it's also often important to have simple, rather verbose code that is trivial to step or log into, and fancy autocomplete typically just don't do this.

I've also found that it takes more words to force models into outputting the kind of code I want, e.g. slurp the entire file that is absolutely sure to exist and if it doesn't we need to nuke anyway, instead of five step read configured old school C-like file handles. This problem seems worse in PHP than Python, but I don't like Python and if I use it I'll be doing it inside Elixir anyway so I need to manually make sure quotations don't break the Elixir string.

Personally I also don't have the time to wait for LLM:s. I'm in a hurry when I write my code, it's like I'm jogging through it, because I've likely done the thinking and planning ahead of writing, so I just want to push out the code and execute it often in a tight cycle. Shutting down for twenty to three hundred seconds while the silly oracle is drawing power over and over again is really annoying. Like, I commonly put a watch -n on the test runner in a side terminal with usually 3-10 seconds depending on how slow it feels at the moment, and that's a cadence LLM:s don't seem to be able to keep up with.

Maybe the SaaS ones are faster but for one I don't use them for legal reasons and secondly every video of one that I watch is either excruciatingly slow or they snipped or sped up 'thinking' portions. Some people seem to substitute for people and chat with their LLM:s like I would with a coworker or expert in some subject, which I'm not interested in, in part because I fiercely dislike the 'personality' LLM:s usually emulate. They are also not knowledgeable in my main problem domains and can't learn, unlike a person, whom I could explain context and constraints to before we get to the part where I'm unsure or not good enough.

To me these products are reminiscent of Wordpress. They might enable people like https://xcancel.com/leojr94_ to create plugins or prototypes, and some people seem to be able to maintain small, non-commercial software tools with them, but it doesn't seem like they're very good leverage for people that work on big software. Enterprise, critical, original systems, that kind of thing.

Edit: Related to that, I sometimes do a one-shot HTML file generation because I suck at stuff like Tailwind and post-HTML4 practices, and then I paste in the actual information and move things around. Seems fine for that, but I could just script it and then I'd learn more.