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423 points speckx | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0.74s | source
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dylan604 ◴[] No.44533476[source]
SSD speeds are nothing short of miraculous in my mind. I come from the old days of striping 16 HDDs together (at a minimum number) to get 1GB/s throughput. Depending on the chassis, that was 2 8-drive enclosures in the "desktop" version or the large 4RU enclosures with redundant PSUs and fans loud enough to overpower arena rock concerts. Now, we can get 5+GB/s throughput from a tiny stick that can be used externally via a single cable for data&power that is absolutely silent. I edit 4K+ video as well, and now can edit directly from the same device the camera recorded to during production. I'm skipping over the parts of still making backups, but there's no more multi-hour copy from source media to edit media during a DIT step. I've spent many a shoot as a DIT wishing the 1s&0s would travel across devices much faster while everyone else on the production has already left, so this is much appreciated by me. Oh, and those 16 device units only came close to 4TB around the time of me finally dropping spinning rust.

The first enclosure I ever dealt with was a 7-bay RAID-0 that could just barely handle AVR75 encoding from Avid. Just barely to the point that only video was saved to the array. The audio throughput would put it over the top, so audio was saved to a separate external drive.

Using SSD feels like a well deserved power up from those days.

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jorvi ◴[] No.44535471[source]
It's not really the SSDs themselves that are incredibly fast (they still are somewhat), it's mostly the RAM cache and clever tricks to make TLC feel like SLC.

Most (cheap) SSDs their performance goes off a cliff once you hit the boundary of these tricks.

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forrestthewoods ◴[] No.44536447[source]
> once you hit the boundary of these trick

Tell me more. When do I hit the boundary? What is perf before/after said boundary? What are the tricks?

Tell me something actionable. Educate me.

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jdiff ◴[] No.44537514[source]
Your tone is quite odd here. I'm having difficulty parsing your intention, but I'm going to assume you're being genuine because why not.

For the RAM cache, you hit the boundaries when you exhaust the RAM cache. It performs faster, but is smaller and once full, data has to be off/loaded at the rate of the slower backing NAND. It might not be RAM, either, sometimes faster SLC NAND is used for the cache.

It's not really possible to describe it much more concretely than that beyond what you've already been told, performance falls off a cliff when that happens. How long "it" takes, what the level of performance is before and after, it all depends on the device.

There are many more tricks that SSD manufacturers use, but caching is the only one I know of related to speed so I'll leave the rest in the capable hands of Google.

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forrestthewoods ◴[] No.44538662[source]
My tone is a combination of genuine curiosity and moderate annoyance at a dismissive but unhelpful comment.

RootsComment: SSD speed is miraculous! Jorvis: well ackshually is just RAM and tricks that run out Me: your comment provides zero value

I am annoyed by well ackshually comments. I’d love to learn more about SDD performance. How is the ram filled? How bad is perf when you cache miss? What’s worse case perf? What usage patterns are good or bad? So many interesting questions.

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1. jorvi ◴[] No.44541163[source]
Look at this Kioxia Excera drive[0]. It plummets from 6800Mb/s (850MB/s) all the way to 1600Mb/s (200MB/s).

Its not really a well ackshually comment, there's real pitfalls. Especially when doing 4K. RAW 4K is 12Gb/s and would fill 450GB within 5 minutes. ProRes 4444XQ within 10 minutes. ProRes4444 in 40 minutes.

Martinald his comment is right too. By being very inefficient and treating TLC (or even QLC) as single level and only writing one bit to a cell, much higher performance can be extracted. But once you hit the 80% full threshold, the drive starts to repack the last/least used data into multiple bits per cell.

A RAM cache and SLC cache can both speed access times up, act as a write buffer and mask the shuffling of bits, but there is a limit.

Lastly, its kind of ironic to see me portrayed as jaded when someone else is the one pouring out vitriol all over the thread. Ah well.

[0]https://tweakers.net/reviews/12310/wd-sn5000-4tb-ssd-hoe-sne...

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2. forrestthewoods ◴[] No.44543549[source]
> this Kioxia Excera drive[0]. It plummets from 6800Mb/s (850MB/s) all the way to 1600Mb/s (200MB/s).

This is interesting. Thanks!

> Its not really a well ackshually comment, there's real pitfalls

I don’t doubt the existence of pitfalls. But the lack of specificity was quite irritating!