←back to thread

642 points xbryanx | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.26s | source
Show context
jordanb ◴[] No.44532900[source]
I went on a deep dive on this scandal about a year or so ago. One thing that struck me is the class element.

Basically, the Post Office leadership could not understand why someone would buy a PO franchise. It's a substantial amount of money up front, and people aren't allowed to buy multiple franchises, so every PO was an owner/operator position. Essentially people were "buying a job".

The people in leadership couldn't understand why someone would buy the opportunity to work long hours at a retail position and end up hopefully clearing a middle class salary at the end of the year. They assumed that there must be a real reason why people were signing up and the real reason was to put their hands in the till.

So they ended up assuming the postmasters were stealing, and the purpose of the accounting software was to detect the fraud so it could be prosecuted. When the accounting software started finding vast amounts of missing funds, they ignored questions about the software because it was working as intended. I bet if the opposite had happened, and it found very little fraud, they would have become suspicious of the software because their priors were that the postmasters were a bunch of thieves.

replies(16): >>44532976 #>>44533020 #>>44533158 #>>44533278 #>>44533786 #>>44533975 #>>44534079 #>>44534542 #>>44535515 #>>44535532 #>>44536140 #>>44536170 #>>44536440 #>>44536933 #>>44537531 #>>44540144 #
ionwake ◴[] No.44533278[source]
I found this comment insightful but I feel I must itirate ( maybe its not needed), that it is not "clear" if leadership were ignorant, as you said, ( though Im sure you are part right ), I have read that it was malicious leadership trying to protect their own asses as per another comment.
replies(2): >>44533459 #>>44535306 #
horizion2025 ◴[] No.44535306[source]
What I've seen so far suggest they were just ignorant and victims of confirmational bias etc. You can see that when they won some cases they wrote internally something to the effect of "Final we can put to rest all those concerns about these cases blablabla". So it became self-validating. Also the courts and defense lawyers didn't manage to the see the pattern and in the huge numbers of such cases. Each defendant was fighting their own battle. Also, a mathematician from Fujitsu gave "convincing" testimony they didn't have any errors. A lot was down to lack of understanding of how technology works. The fact that xx millions of transactions were processed without errors doesn't preclude that there could be errors in a small number, as was the case. In this case sometimes coming down to random effects like if race conditions were triggered.
replies(3): >>44536108 #>>44536326 #>>44537054 #
ionwake ◴[] No.44536108[source]
You're probably right—I just wanted to share a few thoughts and would welcome any corrections or clarification.

If I were in leadership, I'd assume there are edge cases I'm missing and take responsibility accordingly. Id just assume that is my job, as the leader, that is why I am paid, to make important decisions and stop the company from making big mistakes.

This isn’t a critique of your view—just an observation: there's a recurring theme on HN that leadership shouldn't be held responsible when things break down, as if being a CEO is just another job, not a position of accountability.

Where does this come from? Is it a uniquely American or capitalist norm?

I recall ( i dont think incorrectly) 1980s Japanese leadership—tech/auto who took failures so seriously they’d resign or even mention/think of sudoku.

replies(2): >>44536480 #>>44539092 #
9rx ◴[] No.44539092[source]
CEO really is just another job, though. Perhaps you meant to say director? That is where the accountability lies, both practically and legally.

CEO is the top of middle management, but still middle management all the same. The board and owners sit above that position, if you want to picture it as some kind of hierarchy, and are the driving leadership. They call the shots. The CEO has to answer to them.

Perhaps what you are trying to say is that middle management should carry more accountability? But if we were to go down that road, why stop at CEO?

replies(1): >>44540286 #
ionwake ◴[] No.44540286[source]
Thanks for clarification I guess all higher ups should share
replies(1): >>44540644 #
1. 9rx ◴[] No.44540644[source]
Why stop at higher ups? Even the bottom run worker has autonomy. They, while perhaps not to the same degree, take the lead and make important decisions too.

And how high up do you go? The common narrative is that the owners/board are the highest up, but in reality they're working for the customer. The customer is the true leader. It is they who make the decisions and who the owners/board have to answer to.

Or are they really the true leader? The customer will have customers of their own. Everyone works for someone. In reality, there isn't a hierarchy at all. It is approximately cyclical.