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    Preliminary report into Air India crash released

    (www.bbc.co.uk)
    299 points cjr | 12 comments | 11 Jul 25 20:23 UTC | HN request time: 1.701s | source | bottom
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    decimalenough ◴[11 Jul 25 21:24 UTC] No.44536914[source]▶
    > The aircraft achieved the maximum recorded airspeed of 180 Knots IAS at about 08:08:42 UTC and immediately thereafter, the Engine 1 and Engine 2 fuel cutoff switches transitioned from RUN to CUTOFF position one after another with a time gap of 01 sec. The Engine N1 and N2 began to decrease from their take-off values as the fuel supply to the engines was cut off.

    So the fuel supply was cut off intentionally. The switches in question are also built so they cannot be triggered accidentally, they need to be unlocked first by pulling them out.

    > In the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why did he cutoff. The other pilot responded that he did not do so.

    And both pilots deny doing it.

    It's difficult to conclude anything other than murder-suicide.

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    1. ummonk ◴[11 Jul 25 21:34 UTC] No.44536979[source]▶
    Yeah and the other pilot flipped the switches back on and one of the engines started spooling up but it was too late.

    Murder-suicide looks like the likely conclusion, given that flipping the cutoff switches requires a very deliberate action. That said, it's not entirely impossible that due to stress or fatigue the pilot had some kind of mental lapse and post-flight muscle memory (of shutting off the engines) kicked in when the aircraft lifted off.

    replies(2): >>44537337 #>>44541173 #
    2. breadwinner ◴[11 Jul 25 22:19 UTC] No.44537337[source]▶
    > post-flight muscle memory (of shutting off the engines) kicked in

    Possible, and if so it is too early to conclude it was murder-suicide.

    See also: https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/dgca-slaps-80-lakh-fi...

    replies(1): >>44537360 #
    3. Jtsummers ◴[11 Jul 25 22:21 UTC] No.44537360[source]▶
    The report shows 0 flight hours during the prior 24 hours for both pilots, and 7 hours and 6 hours each for the previous 7 days. It seems they were both fresh pilots for this flight.
    replies(2): >>44537648 #>>44540929 #
    4. alphabettsy ◴[11 Jul 25 22:59 UTC] No.44537648{3}[source]▶
    that doesn’t tell us they were fresh. Only that they hadn’t flown. They could’ve slept 0 hours before or any number of things.
    replies(1): >>44539540 #
    5. moralestapia ◴[12 Jul 25 05:25 UTC] No.44539540{4}[source]▶
    Sure, and aliens could also be involved.

    However, the only relevant evidence that exists suggests they had enough rest. You don't build verdicts on suppositions, you build them on proven facts.

    This does not guarantee you will reach the truth, but it's miles better than admitting every baseless hypothesis that comes up.

    replies(1): >>44539591 #
    6. whatevaa ◴[12 Jul 25 05:36 UTC] No.44539591{5}[source]▶
    This is preliminary report. They will look deeper into this.

    Don't sentence people on unfinished investigations. This is why most trials are not public, because of people like you.

    replies(2): >>44539602 #>>44540050 #
    7. moralestapia ◴[12 Jul 25 05:40 UTC] No.44539602{6}[source]▶
    I'm glad you read my other comment [1].

    1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44539508

    8. Dylan16807 ◴[12 Jul 25 07:29 UTC] No.44540050{6}[source]▶
    > because of people like you

    No. Bad.

    9. fosk ◴[12 Jul 25 10:24 UTC] No.44540929{3}[source]▶
    0.1% of airline pilots fly intoxicated, and probably many more fly hangover which is an undetectable condition.

    There is speculation that in the Air France flight 447 that crashed into the ocean en route to Paris, one or the pilots only had 1h of rest because of partying the night before. Of course it’s all speculative, and however unlikely it is, eventually it’s bound to happen that we get pilots with poor mental clarity in charge of large Boeings with hundreds of lives on board. Unfortunately it only takes one lapse of judgement to compromise the flight profile of a large airliner, even if corrected after a few seconds.

    https://generalaviationnews.com/2014/11/06/vanity-fair-the-h...

    replies(1): >>44541460 #
    10. gosub100 ◴[12 Jul 25 11:12 UTC] No.44541173[source]▶
    > Murder-suicide looks like the likely conclusion

    But why cutoff the fuel instead of flying into terrain? It's such a passive action

    replies(1): >>44541340 #
    11. lotsofpulp ◴[12 Jul 25 11:41 UTC] No.44541340[source]▶
    I imagine it would be more difficult to fly into terrain without a cooperative co pilot than cutting the fuel just after take off.
    12. 7952 ◴[12 Jul 25 12:00 UTC] No.44541460{4}[source]▶
    At some point I think we need to accept more control from automation. The model where ultimate authority reverts to a single input is a cop out. That could be pilot input, sensor input or even direction from ATC. They will all provide false data on occasions. When that data contradicts 99% of the other data then the safest option is to ignore it. And that doesn't just mean with compromised humans but with normal human weakness. Fully understanding the aircraft, its state, its systems and the minds of its crew is impossible.

    In this case I wonder if the fuel cut off switches could be replaced by buttons for particular situations. Have an engine fire button or a shut down whilst on the ground button. Let the pilot provide input on state and let the automation decide what to do with that. Obviously this is not a solution to suicidal or murderous behaviour. But it could be a solution to all the low probability edge cases.