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    626 points xbryanx | 14 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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    jordanb ◴[] No.44532900[source]
    I went on a deep dive on this scandal about a year or so ago. One thing that struck me is the class element.

    Basically, the Post Office leadership could not understand why someone would buy a PO franchise. It's a substantial amount of money up front, and people aren't allowed to buy multiple franchises, so every PO was an owner/operator position. Essentially people were "buying a job".

    The people in leadership couldn't understand why someone would buy the opportunity to work long hours at a retail position and end up hopefully clearing a middle class salary at the end of the year. They assumed that there must be a real reason why people were signing up and the real reason was to put their hands in the till.

    So they ended up assuming the postmasters were stealing, and the purpose of the accounting software was to detect the fraud so it could be prosecuted. When the accounting software started finding vast amounts of missing funds, they ignored questions about the software because it was working as intended. I bet if the opposite had happened, and it found very little fraud, they would have become suspicious of the software because their priors were that the postmasters were a bunch of thieves.

    replies(16): >>44532976 #>>44533020 #>>44533158 #>>44533278 #>>44533786 #>>44533975 #>>44534079 #>>44534542 #>>44535515 #>>44535532 #>>44536140 #>>44536170 #>>44536440 #>>44536933 #>>44537531 #>>44540144 #
    klik99 ◴[] No.44536140[source]
    Someone brought this up in a previous HN comment section as an example of trust in software ruining peoples lives. But your explanation is far more human and recontextualizes it a bit for me - it just happened to be that this was done with software, but the real motivation was contempt for the lower classes and could have easily have happened 100 years ago with an internal investigation task force.

    Growing up half in England and US I feel British culture is more attuned to the class aspects to this kind of event. Traditionally America likes to pretend this kind of class contempt doesn't exist (think of, people on welfare angry at welfare queens, unaware they will be affected by legislation they support).

    replies(3): >>44536470 #>>44536778 #>>44538044 #
    1. AceJohnny2 ◴[] No.44536778[source]
    > Traditionally America likes to pretend this kind of class contempt doesn't exist

    It just manifests as racism.

    replies(4): >>44537700 #>>44538150 #>>44538442 #>>44539721 #
    2. Henchman21 ◴[] No.44537700[source]
    There’s class contempt too, no one wants to be one of the poors.
    replies(2): >>44538790 #>>44538933 #
    3. b00ty4breakfast ◴[] No.44538150[source]
    there's still regular ol classism, too, racism is just part of the calculus. Poor white folks don't have it good, they just have it less bad than poor not-white folks
    replies(2): >>44538624 #>>44540150 #
    4. munificent ◴[] No.44538442[source]
    Porque no los dos?
    5. johnnyanmac ◴[] No.44538624[source]
    Some bits here and there. That faded as the US became a super power, and came back a bit as the 80's started stripping down the middle class thst was growing.

    Of course, but the 2010's it was decided by the powers that he to re-introduce identity politics as the new form of class warfare. Which was 80% sexism/racism and 20% classisn.

    6. jeremyjh ◴[] No.44538790[source]
    There isn't as much contempt for the rich as there should be. The poor despise themselves for being poor, instead of the rich for making them that way.
    7. labster ◴[] No.44538933[source]
    Wealth is not the same as class, either. Even in America. A teacher with an annual salary of $60k is higher class than a plumber making $100k annually. Unless the teacher is black, of course, then racial elements of class come into play.
    replies(1): >>44539363 #
    8. keyserj ◴[] No.44539363{3}[source]
    I agree that wealth is not the same as class, but just as a counter anecdote, my dad is a (small business) plumber and I never felt like we were treated less than any other middle class family. If anything, it seemed like people were often really grateful and giving random gifts like food from gardens or tickets to local events.
    replies(1): >>44540370 #
    9. bigstrat2003 ◴[] No.44539721[source]
    Most claims of racism in America are in fact classism. Very, very few people have actual dislike of others based on race. But a whole lot of people dislike people due to culture or class signals.
    replies(2): >>44539825 #>>44541784 #
    10. IOT_Apprentice ◴[] No.44539825[source]
    Do you think Stephen Miller is a classist rather than a bigot? Why not both? I mean he is only worth somewhere between 1-10 million. Shrug.

    I think Vivek Ramaswamy found out how that worked out for himself in politics and at DOGE as a billionaire.

    I suspect your view of very, very few is suspect.

    The founding ideas of MAGA certainly cling to it. The 60-70 million voters for it have zero issues with it.

    replies(1): >>44541133 #
    11. Ratelman ◴[] No.44540150[source]
    In America maybe, in south africa it's quite the opposite considering the government provides a lot more support for poor non-white folks than for white folks (specifically based om race)
    12. Jensson ◴[] No.44540370{4}[source]
    > If anything, it seemed like people were often really grateful and giving random gifts like food from gardens or tickets to local events.

    If they didn't do that to other middle class families then they saw you as less than them. Seeing people as less comes both with charity and contempt, not just one of those.

    13. Sammi ◴[] No.44541133{3}[source]
    He said "most" , not "all".
    14. lucyjojo ◴[] No.44541784[source]
    as a black man that has been around. i seriously doubt that.