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724 points simonw | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.009s | source
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0points ◴[] No.44529722[source]
> Israel ranks high on democracy indicies

Those rankings must be rigged.

Nethanyahu should be locked up in jail now for the corruption charges he was facing before the Hamas attack.

He literally stopped elections in Israel since then and there's been protests against his government daily for some years now.

And now, even taco tries to have the corruption charges dropped for Nethanyahu, then you must know he's guilty.

https://nypost.com/2025/06/29/world-news/israeli-court-postp...

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/netanyahu-corrupti...

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Asafp ◴[] No.44529811[source]
Almost none of what you wrote above is true, no idea how is this a top comment. Israel is a democracy. Netanyahu's trail is still ongoing, the war did not stop the trails and until he is proven guilty (and if) he should not go to jail. He did not stop any elections, Israel have elections every 4 years, it still did not pass 4 years since last elections. Israel is not perfect, but it is a democracy. Source: Lives in Israel.
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DiogenesKynikos ◴[] No.44530008[source]
Israel is a democracy (albeit increasingly authoritarian) only if you belong to one ethnicity. There are 5 million Palestinians living under permanent Israeli rule who have no rights at all. No citizenship. No civil rights. Not even the most basic human rights. They can be imprisoned indefinitely without charges. They can be shot, and nothing will happen. This has been the situation for nearly 60 years now. No other country like this would be called a democracy.
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thyristan ◴[] No.44530079[source]
Afaik those 5 million Palestinians are not Israeli citizens because they don't want to be, and rather would have their refugee and Palestinian citizen status. There are also Palestinians who have chosen to be Israeli citizens, with the usual democratic rights and representation, with their own people in the Knesset, etc.

And shooting enemies in a war is unfortunately not something you would investigate, it isn't even murder, it is just a consequence of war under the articles of war. In cases where civilians are shot (what Israel defines to be civilians), there are investigations and sometimes even punishments for the perpetrators. Now you may (sometimes rightfully) claim that those investigations and punishments are too few, one-sided and not done by a neutral party. But those do happen, which by far isn't "nothing".

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7sigma ◴[] No.44530290[source]
Palestinian citizens in Israel do not have the same rights as the Israeli Jew, with more than 50 laws discrimination against them. They also face systemic discrimination and also you cannot marry between faiths, all the hallmarks of apartheid. Initially Palestinians within the Green lines were also under military occupation and only after 80% of the other Palestinians were either massacred or ethnically cleansed, so it was basically a forced acceptance. Israeli policy has always been to have a an ethnic supremacy for Jews, so the representation in the Knesset is tokenistic at best. If Israel decides to expel Palestinians in Israel, there's nothing they can do, its the tyranny of the majority.

Palestinians in the West Bank do not have the option of becoming Israeli citizens, except under rare circumstances.

Its laughable that when you say that there are investigations. The number of incidents of journalists, medics, hospital workers being murdered and even children being shot in the head with sniper bullets is shockingly high.

One case is the murder of Hind Rajab where more 300 bullets were shot at the car she was into. Despite managing to call for an ambulance, Israel shelled it killing all the ambulance crew and 6 year old Hind Rajab.

Another example is the 15 ambulance crew murdered by Israel forces and then buried.

Even before the genocide, the murder of the Journalist Shireen Abu Akleh was proved to have been done by Israel, after they repeatedly lied and tried to cover it up. Another case was this one, where a soldier emptied his magazine in a 13 year old and was judged not guilty (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/16/israel2)

The examples and many others are many and have been documented by the ICC and other organisations. Saying that it's not nothing is a distinction without a difference

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xdennis ◴[] No.44530631[source]
> with more than 50 laws discrimination against them

List them.

> you cannot marry between faiths

Which law bans this. C'mon show it.

> Palestinians in the West Bank do not have the option of becoming Israeli citizens

Because they're a different country, remember?

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7sigma ◴[] No.44531846[source]
> List them. - Citizenship and Entry into Israel lay (2003), denies the right to acquire Israeli citizenship to Palestinians from occupied territories even if married to citizens of Israel - Absentee's property law, which expropriates the ethnically cleansed palestinians in 1948 - Land Acquisition for Public Ordinance, which allows state to confiscate Palestinian land - Jewish Nation state law that stipulates that Jews only have the right to self determination

There's actually 65 apparently https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/7/19/five-ways-israeli-l...

> Because they're a different country, remember?

They are being occupied illegaly for decades, remember? by a supremacist ethno state, remember?

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reliabilityguy ◴[] No.44532046[source]
> which allows state to confiscate Palestinian land - Jewish Nation state law that stipulates that Jews only have the right to self determination

Similar law exists in Palestinian Authority -- no land can be owned by Jews. Selling land to jews is punishable offense.

> They are being occupied illegaly for decades, remember?

Who? You have to be specific.

> by a supremacist ethno state, remember?

Israel is not supremacist ethno state. Multiple ethnicities live in Israel and have the same rights. Find me another state in the Middle East that offers at least the same rights as Israel to its own minorities.

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7sigma ◴[] No.44533528[source]
> Similar law exists in Palestinian Authority -- no land can be owned by Jews. Selling land to jews is punishable offense.

Source? but even if true, I suspect this is an act of resistance against settlers who are already encroaching on Palestinian land through intimidation and terror tactics (poisoning goats, burning trees, cars, houses and evening murdering palestinians, with the protection of the IOF). In any case, the PA is a puppet dictatorship controlled by Israel, so these laws are essentially powerless to stop the stealing of land by Israel. This argument ignores the fact that Israel is gradually ethnically cleansing the rest of Palestine by seizing more and more land every year.

> Who? You have to be specific. Palestinians are being occupied by Israel, the West Bank since 1967 more specifically.

> Israel is not supremacist ethno state. Multiple ethnicities live in Israel and have the same rights. Find me another state in the Middle East that offers at least the same rights as Israel to its own minorities.

Having multiple ethnicities does not negate ethno nationlist policies. South Africa was also multi ethnic, having for example people of Indian ancestry and yet there was still discrimination and apartheid. Palestinian citizens in Israel suffer from systemic discrimination and there are numerous laws that prioritise Jews.

Pointing to the poor human rights records of Middle Eastern countries doesn’t absolve Israel. Israel is the only country in the world that puts children through military tribunals. Given the current genocide, and its tacit support of that, those are not the hallmarks of a tolerant society.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-05-28/ty-article-ma...

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1. reliabilityguy ◴[] No.44534880[source]
> Source?

Here you go: https://muse.jhu.edu/pub/3/article/962044#:~:text=The%20conc...

> but even if true, ...

Continues to justify discriminatory laws.

> Having multiple ethnicities does not negate ethno nationlist policies. South Africa was also multi ethnic, having for example people of Indian ancestry and yet there was still discrimination and apartheid. Palestinian citizens in Israel suffer from systemic discrimination and there are numerous laws that prioritise Jews.

Stop shifting goal posts. The fact that Israel is a jewish state does not mean that it is a "supremacist" state (what does it even mean?). There are plenty of countries around the globe that have priority for specific ethnic group. For example, Spain, Poland, Austria, etc. Are these all "supremacist ethnostates" as well?

> Pointing to the poor human rights records of Middle Eastern countries doesn’t absolve Israel.

Ah, right. So, why are you focused on Israel though? Don't you think that there is a bigger fish to fry in all these other countries, where minorities by law are disenfranchised?

> Israel is the only country in the world that puts children through military tribunals.

This is a lie. For example, during the invasion to Iraq, allied forces prosecuted teenage fighters as well. Why do you lie? Like, all your claims are easily disputed with a simple google search. It seems to me you are obsessed with human rights violations only when they are done by Israeli forces.

> Given the current genocide,

There is no genocide. There are plenty of conflicts with even higher civilian casualty rate, with a clear intent to destroy the population as a whole that the current iteration of a war in Gaza. I know that today, for some reason, everyone expects wars have no civilian casualties, but in reality is not achievable.

> and its tacit support of that, those are not the hallmarks of a tolerant society.

Waging wars tells you nothing about the tolerance of a country and its populace. If I were to use your line of argument then I can say that any society that engages in war is intolerant, which is absolute bs.

It would be hard to demand love to Gazans from Israelis after October 7th. And if you do, then I can make the same argument and ask the Palestinians to stop their "resistance" and simply be friends with everyone around them.

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2. DiogenesKynikos ◴[] No.44538718[source]
> Continues to justify discriminatory laws.

They're under military occupation by a country that uses the presence of Jewish people as a justification for annexing Palestinian land. There are American billionaires who are pouring tons of money into buying up Palestinian property and giving it to Jewish settlers, so that Israel can lay permanent claim to the land.

Of course the Palestinians are trying to stop that.

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3. reliabilityguy ◴[] No.44550896[source]
Ah, I see. As long as the injustice is done towards the group you don’t like, then it’s not injustice.

You see, this is why it’s so easy to see through your claims — they are not rooted in universal values, but rather in double standards, which are easy to call out.