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    At Least 13 People Died by Suicide Amid U.K. Post Office Scandal, Report Says

    (www.nytimes.com)
    626 points xbryanx | 13 comments | 11 Jul 25 11:56 UTC | HN request time: 0.295s | source | bottom
    1. SCdF ◴[11 Jul 25 14:25 UTC] No.44532508[source]▶
    Effectively tortured to death.

    One of the things that frustrates me with how ethics is taught in computer science is that we use examples like Therac 25, and people listen in horror, then their takeaway is frequently "well thank god I don't work on medical equipment".

    The fact that it's medical equipment is a distraction. All software can cause harm to others. All of it. You need to care about all of it.

    replies(4): >>44532722 #>>44533154 #>>44534316 #>>44534665 #
    2. whycome ◴[11 Jul 25 14:45 UTC] No.44532722[source]▶
    That’s why the “died by suicide” language can be problematic. These people were driven by several factors and they were left with no choice.
    replies(1): >>44533039 #
    3. arrowsmith ◴[11 Jul 25 15:11 UTC] No.44533039[source]▶
    "Driven to suicide" may be more accurate. And damning.
    4. jedimastert ◴[11 Jul 25 15:19 UTC] No.44533154[source]▶
    Jesus I desperately wish real ethics classes were required for computer science degrees
    replies(3): >>44534064 #>>44534839 #>>44540075 #
    5. UK-AL ◴[11 Jul 25 16:25 UTC] No.44534064[source]▶
    In the UK they are I think? Well if they want to be BCS accredited.
    6. gblargg ◴[11 Jul 25 16:47 UTC] No.44534316[source]▶
    Therac 25 is exactly what I thought of when reading this story. The software didn't have direct hardware control to kill patients with radiation, but it still resulted in thousands of victims.
    7. mbonnet ◴[11 Jul 25 17:12 UTC] No.44534665[source]▶
    I work on satellites that are intended for use in missile tracking. If I fail in the software, it might not "kill people", but people will die due to the failures.

    Though, I used to work on fighter jets and SAMs. People do die due to my work.

    replies(1): >>44534771 #
    8. hotpocket777 ◴[11 Jul 25 17:20 UTC] No.44534771[source]▶
    Are you proud of that or something?
    replies(2): >>44535395 #>>44536308 #
    9. izacus ◴[11 Jul 25 17:26 UTC] No.44534839[source]▶
    Ethic classes are pointless without ethical liability and accountability of people causing suffering. Yes, even the Jira javascript ticket punchers hould be accountable for what they do.
    replies(1): >>44535607 #
    10. CamperBob2 ◴[11 Jul 25 18:19 UTC] No.44535395{3}[source]▶
    (Shrug) Some people need killing.
    11. jedimastert ◴[11 Jul 25 18:41 UTC] No.44535607{3}[source]▶
    "ethics classes are useless because no one would willingly choose to act ethically" is an interesting stance to take...
    12. mousethatroared ◴[11 Jul 25 20:02 UTC] No.44536308{3}[source]▶
    Look your question is not unreasonable and the s answer is interesting, but your tone implies loathing and belittling.

    Which maybe we (I also work in "defense") deserve to burn in hell, but who are you to be self righteous? For example, if you ever put up a Ukraine flag sticker you'd be a hypocrite too.

    13. lmm ◴[12 Jul 25 07:32 UTC] No.44540075[source]▶
    The best available evidence is that ethics classes reduce ethical behaviour.