←back to thread

Grok: Searching X for "From:Elonmusk (Israel or Palestine or Hamas or Gaza)"

(simonwillison.net)
724 points simonw | 6 comments | 11 Jul 25 00:22 UTC | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
Show context
0points ◴[11 Jul 25 08:39 UTC] No.44529722[source]▶
> Israel ranks high on democracy indicies

Those rankings must be rigged.

Nethanyahu should be locked up in jail now for the corruption charges he was facing before the Hamas attack.

He literally stopped elections in Israel since then and there's been protests against his government daily for some years now.

And now, even taco tries to have the corruption charges dropped for Nethanyahu, then you must know he's guilty.

https://nypost.com/2025/06/29/world-news/israeli-court-postp...

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/netanyahu-corrupti...

replies(3): >>44529811 #>>44529954 #>>44530188 #
Asafp ◴[11 Jul 25 08:51 UTC] No.44529811[source]▶
Almost none of what you wrote above is true, no idea how is this a top comment. Israel is a democracy. Netanyahu's trail is still ongoing, the war did not stop the trails and until he is proven guilty (and if) he should not go to jail. He did not stop any elections, Israel have elections every 4 years, it still did not pass 4 years since last elections. Israel is not perfect, but it is a democracy. Source: Lives in Israel.
replies(4): >>44529850 #>>44530008 #>>44530351 #>>44530493 #
DiogenesKynikos ◴[11 Jul 25 09:16 UTC] No.44530008[source]▶
Israel is a democracy (albeit increasingly authoritarian) only if you belong to one ethnicity. There are 5 million Palestinians living under permanent Israeli rule who have no rights at all. No citizenship. No civil rights. Not even the most basic human rights. They can be imprisoned indefinitely without charges. They can be shot, and nothing will happen. This has been the situation for nearly 60 years now. No other country like this would be called a democracy.
replies(4): >>44530079 #>>44530190 #>>44530481 #>>44530584 #
Y_Y ◴[11 Jul 25 10:20 UTC] No.44530481[source]▶
I've lived in several "top-tier" democracies and had limited or no voting rights because I wasn't a citizen. I don't think this is unreasonable (or unusual) from a definitional perspective.

A country who government was chosen by its inhabitants could be quite different. I know many states allow voting from abroad, but my home country doesn't and nobody ever questions its democratic credentials.

(I make no comment on the justice or long-term stability of the system in general or specifically in Israel, that has been done at length elsewhere.)

replies(3): >>44530517 #>>44530580 #>>44531614 #
1. thrance ◴[11 Jul 25 10:26 UTC] No.44530517[source]▶
No, Palestinians are citizens, simply second class ones with less rights and more duties. It would be like if you were born in a "democracy" but weren't given some rights because of who you were born to. It's obviously very different from being a tourist in another country.
replies(2): >>44530566 #>>44530617 #
2. reliabilityguy ◴[11 Jul 25 10:34 UTC] No.44530566[source]▶
> No, Palestinians are citizens,

They are not though. They are citizens of PA, where they vote and pay taxes.

Israeli Arabs get full citizenship like any other ethnic/religious minority in Israel.

replies(1): >>44530590 #
3. thrance ◴[11 Jul 25 10:38 UTC] No.44530590[source]▶
Israel does not recognize the Palestinian state, ergo all Palestinians are considered permanent residents of Israel, but not given any right, which is the issue.
replies(1): >>44530675 #
4. Y_Y ◴[11 Jul 25 10:42 UTC] No.44530617[source]▶
Citizens of Israel, under Israeli law? Some are, but most are not. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel )

They're certainly humans worthy of rights and dignity, citizens of the world, and most are citizens of the (partially recognised, limited authority) Palestinian state. But I think it's clear what we are talking about, that the Israeli state is "democratic" in the sense that it has a conventional (if unfair) idea of who its population/demos is, and those are the people eligible to vote for the representatives at the State level.

The situation you describe actually did happen to me, and many others in states without jus soli which are nonetheless widely considered democratic. This is typical in Western Europe, for example.

5. reliabilityguy ◴[11 Jul 25 10:50 UTC] No.44530675{3}[source]▶
> Israel does not recognize the Palestinian state

Israel does recognize Palestinian Authority.

> ergo all Palestinians are considered permanent residents of Israel

Palestinians are not permanent citizens of Israel. And they are not considered ones.

Why do you invent things that are easily verifiable online?

> but not given any right, which is the issue.

They have all their rights within Palestinian Authority!

The issue is that Oslo accord were not finalized and military occupation never ended.

replies(1): >>44534407 #
6. Y_Y ◴[11 Jul 25 16:54 UTC] No.44534407{4}[source]▶
> > ergo all Palestinians are considered permanent residents of Israel

> Palestinians are not permanent citizens of Israel. And they are not considered ones.

> Why do you invent things that are easily verifiable online?

The distinction between citizen and resident is a sharp and significant one in many jurisdictions!