←back to thread

Solar power has begun to transform the world’s energy system

(www.newyorker.com)
353 points dmazin | 1 comments | 09 Jul 25 12:31 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
Show context
jonplackett ◴[10 Jul 25 08:19 UTC] No.44518605[source]▶
> Instead of relying on scattered deposits of fossil fuel—the control of which has largely defined geopolitics for more than a century—we are moving rapidly toward a reliance on diffuse but ubiquitous sources of supply. The sun and the wind are available everywhere

I’m all for solar - but does it really solve the geographical / geopolitical issues of oil, as it’s currently rolling out?

China produces pretty much all the solar panels - That’s quite a big concentration of power, even more so than oil.

replies(7): >>44518623 #>>44518646 #>>44518740 #>>44519458 #>>44519644 #>>44519718 #>>44520159 #
kragen ◴[10 Jul 25 08:39 UTC] No.44518740[source]▶
I’m all for solar - but does it really solve the geographical / geopolitical issues of oil, as it’s currently rolling out?

Yes, because if the US blockades you so you can't import oil, your trucks and power plants stop running in six weeks. If the US blockades you so you can't import Chinese solar panels, your power grid stops running in 20 years. Actually, that's just the end of the warranty period, so more like 30. Or 40. The US is gonna have to keep up that blockade for a long time before it starts causing you any pain. Probably after the President For Life dies.

replies(2): >>44518832 #>>44519179 #
Gibbon1 ◴[10 Jul 25 09:49 UTC] No.44519179[source]▶
It's more banal than that. Oil you have to pay for. Which for most countries you need to constantly come up with foreign currency. If you have a financial crisis like hot money flees you end up at the mercy of the world banking systems mafia enforcers the IMF.

With solar and electrified transport and industry? Can't pay the loans for the solar panels? Sucks for the saps that loaned you the money. Come and take them.

replies(1): >>44519288 #
nradov ◴[10 Jul 25 10:07 UTC] No.44519288[source]▶
Come on, be serious. The IMF doesn't break anyone's legs. The worst they can do is refuse to loan you any more money. Any sovereign state is free to balance their own budget and tell the IMF to GTFO.
replies(1): >>44524636 #
kragen ◴[10 Jul 25 19:28 UTC] No.44524636[source]▶
This is currently more or less true, but historically speaking, sovereign default has often been used as a casus belli for invasion; that's where the Monroe doctrine comes from, after all. The collapsing Pax Americana is arguably the reason we haven't seen it happen in decades, so it would be unsurprising to see it start to happen again.

And of course financial considerations are often a first-order consideration in military conflict even today.

replies(1): >>44525380 #
Gibbon1 ◴[10 Jul 25 20:44 UTC] No.44525380[source]▶
That most counties need to import oil and gas to keep the lights on and industry functioning means you don't need to send gunboats of yore. See Smedley Butler's rant. Now when they get in a pickle they need foreign currency. And that's how they get ya.

Renewables however flips things back.

replies(1): >>44527208 #
kragen ◴[11 Jul 25 00:25 UTC] No.44527208[source]▶
That's an excellent point, and one I hadn't really internalized. Thank you.
replies(1): >>44528284 #
Gibbon1 ◴[11 Jul 25 04:02 UTC] No.44528284[source]▶
Instructive to read up on the 2022 Sri Lanka protests.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Sri_Lankan_protests

Debt crisis and sharp spikes in fuel and oil costs resulted in shortages of both. Also shortages of fertilizer. Which resulted in shortages of food.

If I was a Sri Lankan politician I wouldn't want a repeat of that.

replies(1): >>44529594 #
1. nradov ◴[11 Jul 25 08:21 UTC] No.44529594[source]▶
The Sri Lankan politicians like "Mr. 10%" were largely in it for the gift. The debt crisis could have been prevented if they followed IMF recommendations in the first place.