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Bulgaria to join euro area on 1 January 2026

(www.ecb.europa.eu)
265 points toomuchtodo | 14 comments | 09 Jul 25 00:44 UTC | HN request time: 1.485s | source | bottom
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decimalenough ◴[09 Jul 25 03:03 UTC] No.44506006[source]▶
Credit where credit is due: the EU gets a lot of flack for being bureaucratic, hidebound, sclerotic, whatever, but the single currency has been a success and it's still expanding, 26 years after its creation.

Also, the addition of Bulgaria means it's almost possible to travel from Spain to Greece entirely through the Eurozone, with only a thin sliver of Serbia or Macedonia in the way. (Assuming we include Montenegro and Kosovo in the Eurozone: technically they aren't, but for all practical purposes they are.)

It'll also be interesting to see who's next. Czechia is not far off but doesn't seem to be in a hurry, while Romania wants in but still seems to be a ways off. Poland and Hungary will stay outside unless there are major political changes.

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Roark66 ◴[09 Jul 25 06:12 UTC] No.44506791[source]▶
Polish here, very much against adopting the euro until our standard of living and growth rate matches Germany (no at least not for next 10 years). Why? Because the disadvantages far out weight the benefits for developing countries. The biggest issue is giving up one of the biggest instrument of control over the economy to a supra-national non-democratic organisation. Surely the monetary policy will follow what is best for the biggest economies (or at best the average) while local policy is way better tweaked towards local needs. The best example of this is money supply. The money supply ideally should match the economy growth rate +X so there is tiny inflation (and definitely no deflation). This growth rate is very different in "old EU" and "new EU" countries. So what happens? In time things get more expensive much faster in countries that grow faster while incomes stay the same. This is a huge negative and this is on top of price increases happening on "day 1" due to rounding up during conversion.

Historically the biggest benefit that was sold as something to outweigh this was a claim that "inflation will be low" and big inflation spikes are impossible. This came about from the short sighted view that all inflation stems from printing money and by giving up our control over it to somebody else we somehow "protect ourselves". This was proven wrong during covid when inflation was vastly different in let's say Latvia and Germany despite sharing a currency.

So what is the bottom line? Is euro all bad? No, it is very useful so we have a common currency in the euro zone that is not controlled from across the ocean. This is a huge benefit, but the same benefit is achieved by having it be a second currency like it is now in Poland rather than the only currency. (you can pay in euros in almost everywhere if you prefer as well as get it from cash machines etc)

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1. PunchTornado ◴[09 Jul 25 07:06 UTC] No.44507082[source]▶
who is non-democratic and why?
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2. raxxorraxor ◴[09 Jul 25 07:16 UTC] No.44507129[source]▶
The EU institution because of pragmatic and systematic properties. Ultimately to say something is democratic or not is a subjective opinion, but EU proponents have made the mistake to brush such criticism away.

Since then the EU is mostly developing in a wrong direction.

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3. dmos62 ◴[09 Jul 25 07:29 UTC] No.44507198[source]▶
How is democracy subjective? Because most democracy is indirect?
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4. Sammi ◴[09 Jul 25 07:38 UTC] No.44507243[source]▶
Who is not democratically elected?

The EU Parliament is directly elected. The EU Council is comprised of EU country head of states, which are all directly elected. The EU Council and EU Parliament then elect the EU Comission.

Sounds democratic to me.

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5. nwellnhof ◴[09 Jul 25 08:13 UTC] No.44507445{3}[source]▶
The EU Parliament is not democratically elected because votes from member states have a different weight. The election is free but not fair. It's also one of the few parliaments that can't propose laws on their own but can only veto laws proposed by the EU Commission.

The powerful EU Commission being appointed by governments (and again only approved by the Parliament) is a form of executive federalism. This makes the chain of legitimacy longer and longer which is hardly positive for democracy.

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6. raxxorraxor ◴[09 Jul 25 08:26 UTC] No.44507530{3}[source]▶
To you it may be democratic enough. Not for me and the parliament lacks legislative initiative which in reality means the commission steers the ship.

It is more of a bureaucratic technocracy with democratic fig leaves. People often attribute competence to technocracies, but that is an illusion.

Also I don't believe you can move up government function to layers above your national government and still call it representative.

In reality the culture and circumstances of parliament members is too far removed from the voters. I also cannot know the other representatives, so my voting decision will always be restricted to a shallow popularity contest. But as explained, this doesn't matter, because the elected representatives cannot implement any agenda.

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7. raxxorraxor ◴[09 Jul 25 08:28 UTC] No.44507546{3}[source]▶
Democracy is a real democracy if voters feel represented. Perhaps there is a voter here and there that has an objective perspective if representation is enough or not. But I wouldn't bet on it.

But you said yourself, that there are different lavels of directness. That is the core argument where everyone has different expectations.

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8. bmicraft ◴[09 Jul 25 09:03 UTC] No.44507772{4}[source]▶
The core argument sounds a lot like "it's not true if I don't feel like it's true". Which of course decades of anti-eu parties and ads can have a massive impact on.
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9. raxxorraxor ◴[09 Jul 25 09:15 UTC] No.44507841{5}[source]▶
You don't have to engage with this kind of criticism but it isn't entirely recent or new nor too complicated ot understand the issues people might have.
10. andreasmetsala ◴[09 Jul 25 10:34 UTC] No.44508302{4}[source]▶
> In reality the culture and circumstances of parliament members is too far removed from the voters. I also cannot know the other representatives, so my voting decision will always be restricted to a shallow popularity contest. But as explained, this doesn't matter, because the elected representatives cannot implement any agenda.

That’s an odd thing to say when there is a real chance of the commission failing a confidence vote this week. We might end up with a new commission due to the conservatives colluding with the far right to abandon the climate agenda entirely.

This is a very concrete consequence of the voters electing right-wing parliamentarians.

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11. rini17 ◴[09 Jul 25 10:54 UTC] No.44508424{4}[source]▶
In the US, votes in the congress, senate and president have exactly equal weights between states? Not an expert but I suspect we're in the kettle-pot area here. Not even getting into abysmal voting procedure/implementation which would be inconceivable in the EU.
12. PunchTornado ◴[09 Jul 25 15:24 UTC] No.44511197{4}[source]▶
in most contries votes have different weights. look at the US, or other western countries where minorities for example are boosted to be represented in the parliament. judging by this no country is democratic.
13. Sammi ◴[09 Jul 25 16:49 UTC] No.44512224{4}[source]▶
Small states are usually given more weight in parliament. This is commonly considered more democratic.

The commission is elected by the parliament. This is democratic.

Would it be an improvement if parliament could propose laws and commission members. Maybe. But saying that this makes the EU undemocratic is unreasonable.

14. Sammi ◴[09 Jul 25 17:47 UTC] No.44512900{5}[source]▶
Seriously the commission works at the mercy of the parliament, not the other way around.