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    256 points toomuchtodo | 20 comments | | HN request time: 0.811s | source | bottom
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    decimalenough ◴[] No.44506006[source]
    Credit where credit is due: the EU gets a lot of flack for being bureaucratic, hidebound, sclerotic, whatever, but the single currency has been a success and it's still expanding, 26 years after its creation.

    Also, the addition of Bulgaria means it's almost possible to travel from Spain to Greece entirely through the Eurozone, with only a thin sliver of Serbia or Macedonia in the way. (Assuming we include Montenegro and Kosovo in the Eurozone: technically they aren't, but for all practical purposes they are.)

    It'll also be interesting to see who's next. Czechia is not far off but doesn't seem to be in a hurry, while Romania wants in but still seems to be a ways off. Poland and Hungary will stay outside unless there are major political changes.

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    1. cik ◴[] No.44506549[source]
    I think there's a reality for (visiting) consumers, Schengen has more value than the currency union, at least if you're not a user of cash.

    My experiences in non-Euro, Schengen countries is that all payment terminals offer me the choice to pay in Euro or the local currency. In many cases in tourist areas (of Czechia, Poland, and Bulgaria) I only encountered terminals that asked for payment in Euro.

    replies(5): >>44506587 #>>44506789 #>>44506934 #>>44507045 #>>44507097 #
    2. druskacik ◴[] No.44506587[source]
    It's usually better to pay in the local currency than Euro. The currency still has to be exchanged somewhere, and the banks usually have better rates than the terminal operators.
    replies(2): >>44506781 #>>44506919 #
    3. savolai ◴[] No.44506781[source]
    Hm I always wondered about what this choice actually translates to, what’s the underlying logic determining how what I pay in -> where conversion gets made?
    replies(1): >>44506842 #
    4. vasco ◴[] No.44506789[source]
    Payment terminals can offer whatever currency exchanges they want, but usually it's just a way to fleece you on the spread, nobody is doing you any favors, it's just that whoever in the chain gets to perform the exchange gets to set the fees and the spread and most people get confused by currency exchange so it's in every middle man of the chain's interest to be the one to perform it and get the spread themselves.
    replies(1): >>44506917 #
    5. decimalenough ◴[] No.44506842{3}[source]
    It's called DCC and you are legally required to be offered a choice. If you choose the local currency, your home bank does the exchange and the rate is basically always better. If you choose your home currency, the terminal operator does the exchange at a terrible rate and often slaps on a hefty fee for the "convenience".
    replies(1): >>44506907 #
    6. Cu3PO42 ◴[] No.44506907{4}[source]
    To make things more complicated: it's not necessarily your home bank making the exchange, it can also be your card scheme (e.g. MasterCard/Visa/...). However, this is something you don't get a choice in. Your bank has an agreement with the scheme which foreign currencies are handled by whom. In any case, the rates used by the schemes are generally also pretty good.
    replies(1): >>44506945 #
    7. guappa ◴[] No.44506917[source]
    While currency exchange offices are honest and fair?
    replies(2): >>44506938 #>>44506965 #
    8. chithanh ◴[] No.44506919[source]
    Newspapers even advise travelers against terminals who try to trick paying in Euro instead of local currency. This is a rip-off.
    replies(1): >>44507229 #
    9. Strom ◴[] No.44506934[source]
    Schengen is incredibly useful, especially if you have to transit through several countries. It's also true that the decrease in cash usage has reduced the benefit of the euro.

    However, the benefits of a single currency go beyond cash. It's also about understanding prices. You see a sign for coffee and it's 1199 Hungarian Forint -- or it's 14.99 Polish złoty. It's not clear at all what those numbers mean. Sure it's possible to pull out a currency calculator app to see what the rate is today and what it means in euros. It's not an insurmountable problem, but it is bigger than a mere inconvenience. It's constant friction on not really understanding what's going on. If those coffee prices were instead 2.99 € vs 3.53 €, you would immediately see that the Polish coffee is 20% more expensive.

    --

    As for the payment terminals offering to pay in Euro, as others have already noted, that's a scam. There is a hidden fee, usually around 3.5% - 5.0% of your total, that you get charged for this "convenience". Refusing this and paying in the listed currency will mean that your own bank will do the conversion, which is basically always going to be far cheaper.

    Unfortunately this currency conversion scam is so lucrative that even big brands engage in it. Amazon for example asks what currency your card is in. If you select some currency other than what this sepecific Amazon's listed prices are in, well, you're in for another juicy hidden fee, this time to Amazon.

    replies(2): >>44507091 #>>44507616 #
    10. chithanh ◴[] No.44506938{3}[source]
    If you use your bank's rate by paying in foreign currency then this is usually fair, at most they will add a 1% foreign currency transaction fee.

    When it comes to exchanging cash, avoid currency exchanges at places like airports, tourist hotspots, etc. as they will usually offer worse rates than elsewhere.

    11. savolai ◴[] No.44506945{5}[source]
    Thanks.

    The lack of direct documentation/instructions or link in the terminals to official rules strikes me as horrible ux. You basically just have to be in the know or know who to ask?

    replies(1): >>44507001 #
    12. ses1984 ◴[] No.44506965{3}[source]
    That’s not the alternative, the alternative is to let your bank or credit card processor handle the exchange instead of the terminal operator.
    13. Cu3PO42 ◴[] No.44507001{6}[source]
    It is horrible UX and one might argue intentional. The terminals are provided by the acquirer, i.e. the same party that stands to make extra money if you let them handle the currency exchange.

    In Germany, there was a sliver of time where stores essentially taped a piece of paper to terminals with instructions and big red arrows to select a specific scheme because that would benefit the store (and not cost the consumer extra). It didn't really stick, however. I suspect because it was two extra button presses and the consumer wouldn't notice either way.

    14. chgs ◴[] No.44507045[source]
    It’s the 21st century, I pay for everything by card, currency barriers are way below Schengen and language barriers
    15. vladvasiliu ◴[] No.44507091[source]
    This isn't my experience, so I think people should pay attention to their specific situation.

    Granted, I haven't recently been to any EU country without the Euro, but my main bank charges extortionate conversion fees, 2.sth%, with a ridiculous minimum per transaction.

    A few months ago, I've ordered something off Amazon UK (while in the UK) and the conversion they offered was very close to the official GBP / EUR exchange rate, way below my bank's minimum. The price wasn't high, either, on the order of 10 €.

    replies(1): >>44507160 #
    16. omnimus ◴[] No.44507097[source]
    Yeah never use that offer to pay euros its just scam. Get some travel card like Wise you will save a lot of money and get better feel for the prices.
    17. cik ◴[] No.44507160{3}[source]
    My experience is similar to yours. Banks and credit cards here, love to charge a 7% (total) currency conversion fee. I happily allow Amazon (1%), and basically everyone else to do this as it is much, much cheaper. There are different financial experiences in different countries.
    18. petesergeant ◴[] No.44507229{3}[source]
    I’ve even had my credit card provider message me to warn me before after putting a couple of transactions through! Hardly an unbiased source, but their rates are much much better
    19. piltdownman ◴[] No.44507616[source]
    Non-Schengen EU Passports are basically the same thing for e.g. inter-railing or other journeys involving multiple border crossings.

    Also in Europe people use the likes of Revolut to set up virtual native currency accounts on the fly (with IBAN) with FX free transactions up to a certain level per month dependent on tier.

    replies(1): >>44507783 #
    20. Strom ◴[] No.44507783{3}[source]
    > Non-Schengen EU Passports are basically the same thing

    It's not about passports, it's about border controls within the area. Before Schengen you would have to wait for hours and hours in a queue at the border. Now that border check doesn't exist anymore. The check doesn't exist regardless of what passport you have, there's just nobody there.