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160 points Metalnem | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.24s | source
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torbid ◴[] No.44494933[source]
These sound like good improvements but I still don't really get why the ct log server is responsible for storage at all (as a 3rd party entity)..

Couldn't it just be responsible for its own key and signing incremental advances to a log that all publishers are responsible for storing up to their latest submission to it?

If it needed to restart and some last publisher couldn't give it its latest entries, well they would deserve that rollback to the last publish from a good publisher..

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singron ◴[] No.44495074[source]
The publishers can't entirely do the storage themselves since the whole point of CT is that they can't retract anything. If they did their own storage, they could rollback any change. Even if the log forms a verification chain, they could do a rollback shortly after issuing a certificate without arousing too much suspicion.

Maybe there is an acceptable way to shift long-term storage to CAs while using CT verifiers only for short term storage? E.g. they keep track of their last 30 days of signatures for a CA, which can then get cross-verified by other verifiers in that timeframe.

The storage requirements don't seem that bad though and it might not be worth any reduced redundancy and increased complexity for a different storage scheme. E.g. what keeps me from doing this is the >1Gbps and >1 pager requirements.

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1. NoahZuniga ◴[] No.44500860[source]
> Even if the log forms a verification chain, they could do a rollback shortly after issuing a certificate without arousing too much suspicion.

This is not true. A rollback is instantly noticeable (because the consistency of Signed True Heads can not be demonstrated) and is a very large failure of the log. What could happen is that a log issues a Signed Certificate Timestamp that can be used to show browsers that the cert is in the log, but never incorporating said cert in the log. This is less obvious, but doing this maliciously isn't really going to achieve much because all certs have to be logged in at least 2 logs to be accepted by browsers.

> Maybe there is an acceptable way to shift long-term storage to CAs while using CT verifiers only for short term storage? E.g. they keep track of their last 30 days of signatures for a CA, which can then get cross-verified by other verifiers in that timeframe.

An important source of stress in the PKI community is that there are many CAs, and a significant portion of them don't really want the system to be secure. (Their processes are of course perfect, so all this certificate logging is just them being pestered). Browser operators (and other cert users) do want the system to be secure.

An important design goal for CT was that it would require very little extra effort from CAs (and this drove many compromises). Google and other members of the CA/Browser would rather spend their goodwill on things that make the system more secure (ie shorter certificate lifetimes) than on getting CAs to pay for operating costs of CT logs. The cost for google to host a CT log is very little.