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778 points ananddtyagi | 6 comments | | HN request time: 1.447s | source | bottom
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moneywaters ◴[] No.44487086[source]
I’ve been toying with a concept inspired by Apple’s Find My network: Imagine a decentralized, delay-tolerant messaging system where messages hop device-to-device (e.g., via Bluetooth, UWB, Wi-Fi Direct), similar to how “Find My” relays location via nearby iPhones.

Now add a twist: • Senders pay a small fee to send a message. • Relaying devices earn a micro-payment (could be tokens, sats, etc.) for carrying the message one hop further. • End-to-end encrypted, fully decentralized, optionally anonymous.

Basically, a “postal network” built on people’s phones, without needing a traditional internet connection. Works best in areas with patchy or no internet, or under censorship.

Obvious challenges: • Latency and reliability (it’s not real-time). • Abuse/spam prevention. • Power consumption and user opt-in. • Viable incentive structures.

What do you think? Is this viable? Any real-world use cases where this might be actually useful — or is it just a neat academic toy?

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iSnow ◴[] No.44487994[source]
I like the idea, I just don't know how to implement a robust micropayment system that does not require a lot of messages back and forth for a transaction. Given the intended use-case, that would not work.
replies(2): >>44488104 #>>44488216 #
kosolam ◴[] No.44488216[source]
I can design such a system in a couple of minutes. As the adjacent commenter said it can be done with a blockchain, using smart contacts. 1. Sender deposits fee 2. Message includes unlocking code that itself only can be unlocked by the recipient 3. Message getting wrapped with details of forwarders while it moves between peers 4. Recipient unlocks the message via the smart contract thereby releasing the micropayments to the forwarders
replies(2): >>44489694 #>>44495820 #
glitchc ◴[] No.44489694[source]
To make this work you need to be able to connect to the public blockchain, which of course requires internet access.
replies(1): >>44490742 #
kosolam ◴[] No.44490742[source]
Absolutely, to deposit and withdraw. But relay can be done without the Internet.
replies(2): >>44491122 #>>44505444 #
glitchc ◴[] No.44491122[source]
To claim payment for services too. You've created a new problem that does nothing to solve the original problem.
replies(1): >>44492308 #
1. kosolam ◴[] No.44492308[source]
I gather you aren’t familiar very well with smart contracts, are you?
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2. glitchc ◴[] No.44493400[source]
More familiar than you can imagine. The fact that you think smart contracts are what are needed to solve a decentralized communications problem suggests that you've learnt a new hammer and everything now looks like a nail to you.
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3. kosolam ◴[] No.44494222[source]
Please check the parent comment which I replied to, this is a solution to “how to implement a robust micropayment system” in this context, not how to solve a “decentralized communications problem”.
replies(1): >>44496851 #
4. WantonQuantum ◴[] No.44496851{3}[source]
Well, there's the "Given the intended use-case, that would not work." part which very much means the payment system is in the context of the intended use case.
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5. kosolam ◴[] No.44500482{4}[source]
The full comment quoted:

  >I like the idea, I just don't know how to implement a robust micropayment system that does not require a lot of messages back and forth for a transaction. Given the intended use-case, that would not work.

My reply is: here is the system that will work. Very simple. Keep in mind that multiple use cases and applications were mentioned, so I don’t see an issue for such an economic model to support at least some of the use cases.
replies(1): >>44516117 #
6. TeaBrain ◴[] No.44516117{5}[source]
It doesn't work for this use case, as they tried to explain, as it breaks the entire point of the system as a messaging platform that doesn't require the internet.