Ask HN: Any resources for finding non-smart appliances?

Most appliances like washing machines are "smart-optional" at most, and can just be used as a regular appliance if you don't want all the "smart" stuff. There are also many without any "smart" features. It's different for TVs and such, but for household appliances all of this is not really a big deal.

Yes, it's not like they come with a cell phone modem like smart cars do. You can just choose to not download the app and not give it the wifi password.

Most. As of 2025, this does not apply to the dishwasher from Bosch as discussed in this blog article: https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2025/i-wont-connect-my-dis...

There is functionality hidden in the app, so that the manufacturer can save a dime and a half on some buttons. Unfortunately, this line has already been crossed.

The functionality that is hidden: Rinse, Machine Care (self-cleaning), HalfLoad, Eco and Delay start.

The problem is not that you have more functionality in the app. It's that all the evil people that have designed (not implemented, the drones that write the code rarely have the right to express opinion or provide common sense in big corporate) this idiocy require you to have online account with them, for reasons unknown. This functionality should be local. Bluetooth works fine.

That's certainly worse, but needing to use your phone to run the dishwasher is still bullshit.

Every feature that is added, even if you don't use them, is another piece of tech that can break and potentially be non-serviceable. I've several times now had to repair or replace major appliances in the first 3-5 years of use because of logic boards and such that were unrelated to the core functionality of the appliances.

Granted, not everyone wants or cares to minimize waste when it comes to objects of convenience, but plenty of folks want the option... and yes, I do realize I sound like "your father who bought fancy cars with manual windows because it's one less thing that can break." :) My own father was that kind of person.

So is being obligated to use remote control to operate your TV, but here we are. The only way out of this bind is to obligate manufacturers for different classes of appliances to comply with some standards about local functionality. Which I approve.

Jeff bought that dishwasher based on its Consumer Reports ratings. They must have taken his criticism into account, because it is now far from the top rated dishwasher and includes a disclosure about requiring an app.

I trust Consumer Reports and would never buy an appliance without consulting them, but it doesn't surprise me that they're a little conservative and wouldn't realize they need to call this stuff out initially.

How on earth does that work in an Airbnb? Or like, even my house guests? Do my parents and housekeeper and who knows who else all need to be set up with the Bosch app to be able to function in my kitchen?

But the TV comes with the remote. An appliance with an app doesn't even have the courtesy of a remote.

well you're not going to find one without a logic board, that's for sure

I know you're intending to be helpful with your response, but I think it can be a bit condescending to respond to someone who says they need a non-smart appliance by telling them a smart one will do.

We're probably all familiar with the XY problem, but I think we must also beware the XY problem-problem, where a posed problem is inappropriately identified as an XY problem and a good question is not given a good answer. (See also: much of Stack Overflow) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem

I believe Jeff pointed out that he got the 2025 model, while the tested model was a 2024 model. So they may have retestet with the new model and it now scores worse.

The interesting bit would be to have the reaction from Bosch. They "updated" their design and the review score went down.

It barely works if you're two adults in a home. Half of all the smart appliances can only be linked to one device. Sorry honey, I couldn't do the dishes or the laundry, the machines are linked to your Bosch account.

It's still got a pretty good score, so it probably hasn't yet been added to the scoring criteria. OTOH, it's got the caveat and it's at the bottom of the list of recommendations, so it feels like some non-numerical weighting has been applied. I hope they do add it to the scoring criteria soon.

In the meantime "wifi" is a feature that can be filtered on in their sorting tool.

My problem with "smart optional" devices is that even in that case, the "smart" parts can have knock-on effects.

For example, the AC unit I bought, resets any settings changes from the front panel if you power cycle it, unless you configure them in the web interface.

My new microwave with a "child safety" lock has a button combination you can use to disable the lock, but it forgets that setting on losing power, so you have to perpetually keep the sequence needed around if you ever have brownouts or blackouts.

And, of course, if you just ignore it, it might be waiting for someone to come by with the right bluetooth or 802.11 network or s/t and use any "optional features" however they like...

My TV has buttons and I can control it via my phone (universal remote inbuilt app)

The fact that it might query a firmware update if you’re not careful to never allow it to communicate outward is enough of a risk. I don’t want my appliances querying firmware updates that might brick the unit or give engineers excuses too not get it right the first time. I’ve seen what product owners do when there are known bugs but they want to ship because the user can just update later.

I've got one of these Boschs, and it is bullshit ... but you "only" need the app to run some of the cycle types, so it's only a problem sometimes. The delicate cycle being app limited would be a problem if we used that more often.

No one claimed that. Reducing the number of parts doesn’t imply that every single one should be removed.

It's somewhat the same problem because its possible to lose manufacturer remotes.

And if the TV decided to implement weird, non-standard control signals, it can be a pain to access certain functionality with universal remotes (e.g. settings).

Different path to get there, but same end result: not being able to access functionality without going through an annoying manufacturer-specific route.

there are indeed people in this comment area claiming that they'd prefer mostly analog appliances

but generally a wifi/bluetooth chip isn't going to be the point of failure that brings down an entire appliance... most work without them

I've replaced a lot of logic boards and it's usually something every board needs upstream like a voltage regulator or a capacitor that brings it down

Also, take a look at the permissions required for the app - why does my dishwasher need access to my search history and location?

> but generally a wifi/bluetooth chip isn't going to be the point of failure that brings down an entire appliance... most work without them

The good ones do, but some will stop working if any functionality dies. Hardest part is knowing which are which.

Yeah but if the touch panel of your optional smart washer dies after two years and it costs hundreds to replace, you still pay the cost.