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    Jane Street barred from Indian markets as regulator freezes $566M

    (www.cnbc.com)
    518 points bwfan123 | 15 comments | 06 Jul 25 14:03 UTC | HN request time: 2.147s | source | bottom
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    cs702 ◴[06 Jul 25 20:47 UTC] No.44483909[source]▶
    According to Indian regulators, every trading day Jane Street would:

    1) buy large volumes of stocks and/or stock futures that are part of an index tracking India’s banking sector, early in the day,

    2) subsequently place large options trades, betting that the index would decline or volatility would spike later in the day, and

    3) later in the day, cash out of the large long positions, dragging the index lower, making far more money on the options trades than on the long positions.

    Jane Street can and likely will claim the firm was only arbitraging away pricing inefficiencies, nothing more, nothing less. It was just business as usual, etc., etc.

    However, given the scale of the operation, Jane Street's actions sure look like textbook market manipulation. Calling it like I see it.

    replies(22): >>44483959 #>>44484082 #>>44484085 #>>44484194 #>>44484621 #>>44484974 #>>44485377 #>>44485557 #>>44485564 #>>44485830 #>>44485855 #>>44485873 #>>44486444 #>>44487132 #>>44487671 #>>44487911 #>>44487912 #>>44489362 #>>44490126 #>>44492949 #>>44497566 #>>44499330 #
    conditionnumber ◴[06 Jul 25 22:19 UTC] No.44484621[source]▶
    Don't know about Jane Street, but that sounds like a general problem.

    If options & futures are more liquid than the underlying, someone will be tempted to nudge the underlying.

    Bond ETFs and their options chains seem like another locale where this could happen.

    replies(2): >>44484723 #>>44485530 #
    1. ivape ◴[06 Jul 25 22:33 UTC] No.44484723[source]▶
    I have a suspicion this has been happening with a particular MAG7 stock these last few months, but I can't fully convince myself such a large stock can be manipulated like that.
    replies(3): >>44485166 #>>44486121 #>>44487805 #
    2. pclmulqdq ◴[06 Jul 25 23:37 UTC] No.44485166[source]▶
    At least one of those stocks tends to have a comparatively thin order book.
    replies(2): >>44485281 #>>44485581 #
    3. artemisyna ◴[06 Jul 25 23:54 UTC] No.44485281[source]▶
    Oh?
    4. throwaway2037 ◴[07 Jul 25 00:47 UTC] No.44485581[source]▶
    Google tells me:

        > Coined in 2023, the group consists of Alphabet, Amazon, Apple, Meta Platforms, Microsoft, Nvidia, and Tesla.
    Which one?
    replies(1): >>44485893 #
    5. pclmulqdq ◴[07 Jul 25 01:41 UTC] No.44485893{3}[source]▶
    Tesla
    replies(2): >>44486696 #>>44487033 #
    6. georgemcbay ◴[07 Jul 25 02:19 UTC] No.44486121[source]▶
    > but I can't fully convince myself such a large stock can be manipulated like that.

    I have the same initial reluctance to believe it that you do, but less so when I remind myself that we live in a world where the Social Security Administration sent out a mass email praising the passing of the "big beautiful bill".

    I think our built-up understanding of how the US government functions at a baseline has not caught up to recent events. Especially in regards to how much regulatory bodies are doing their traditional jobs vs being forced to sit on their hands, or in some cases just not even existing anymore.

    replies(3): >>44486320 #>>44486975 #>>44498416 #
    7. jeromegv ◴[07 Jul 25 02:56 UTC] No.44486320[source]▶
    Someone gets it. If you keep cutting budget of people trying to make sure the rules are followed, what do you think is going to happen?
    8. bdangubic ◴[07 Jul 25 04:13 UTC] No.44486696{4}[source]▶
    except Tesla is not just car company but a taxi company and energy company and AI company and robotics company… 6-7 more decades and orders will be pouring in :)
    replies(1): >>44487387 #
    9. riffraff ◴[07 Jul 25 05:14 UTC] No.44486975[source]▶
    As someone living in a country with very weakened democracy, getting emails from the government was the point I realized things were really messed up. If this is now happening in the USA, well, good luck.
    replies(1): >>44487785 #
    10. bwfan123 ◴[07 Jul 25 05:25 UTC] No.44487033{4}[source]▶
    Any stock with large retail options trading volume is ripe for shenanigans, and I can bet tsla is one of them.
    11. mrweasel ◴[07 Jul 25 06:47 UTC] No.44487387{5}[source]▶
    Tesla is also Musk. The Tesla stock is currently tied closer to the shenanigans of it's CEO than it is to the fundamentals underlying the company.
    12. georgemcbay ◴[07 Jul 25 07:58 UTC] No.44487785{3}[source]▶
    Thanks, we're gonna need it (the luck, that is).

    We got email from a government agency that is weakened by the passage of a new law celebrating the passage of said law, so yeah that's not looking great.

    13. reedf1 ◴[07 Jul 25 08:01 UTC] No.44487805[source]▶
    Of course large stocks can be manipulated like this. But there is also normal oscillation, repeatable human psychological behavior (e.g. momentum, mean reversion), and just crowd murmuration. Be careful using your eyes to gleam patterns from graphs; you may find if you try to monetize these they vanish before you.
    14. southernplaces7 ◴[09 Jul 25 13:14 UTC] No.44509669{3}[source]▶
    Sorry for asking but curious, how did mails.AI help you track stock movements? Isn't it just an email marketing assistant service?
    replies(1): >>44531190 #
    15. Shocka1 ◴[11 Jul 25 12:06 UTC] No.44531190{4}[source]▶
    I believe you are responding to a scammer.