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    337 points tareqak | 25 comments | | HN request time: 0.411s | source | bottom
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    tomrod ◴[] No.44469345[source]
    If correct, this is a good thing on a generally bad, overstuffed bill. Immediate expensing never should have been changed in the first place, and it was always weird seeing people twist themselves in knots defending it.
    replies(4): >>44469474 #>>44469476 #>>44469714 #>>44471311 #
    1. xp84 ◴[] No.44469474[source]
    It’s an overstuffed bill because nobody will compromise on anything so the only way to pass a bill that has anything even remotely controversial to either party is one reconciliation bill a year.
    replies(3): >>44469494 #>>44469916 #>>44469965 #
    2. dragonwriter ◴[] No.44469494[source]
    > It’s an overstuffed bill because nobody will compromise on anything so the only way to pass a bill that has anything even remotely controversial to either party is one reconciliation bill a year.

    No, and lots of controversial bills have passed other than as reconciliation bills, and especially so during trifectas where they "controversial" within the minority party but broadly supported by the majority; reconciliation is necessary to pass something that strains unity in the majority party and is uniformly opposed by (not "controversial to") the minority party, perhaps.

    replies(2): >>44469550 #>>44469712 #
    3. cheriot ◴[] No.44469550[source]
    In the last 10 years, have there been more than a handful of bills that got 60 votes in the senate?

    I wouldn't like what the current congress would do without the filibuster, but at this point a paralyzed system might be worse.

    replies(4): >>44469613 #>>44469632 #>>44469664 #>>44470156 #
    4. apsec112 ◴[] No.44469613{3}[source]
    "Despite Democrats holding thin majorities in both chambers during a period of intense political polarization, the 117th Congress (2021-2023) oversaw the passage of numerous significant bills, including the Inflation Reduction Act, American Rescue Plan Act, Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, Postal Service Reform Act, Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, CHIPS and Science Act, Honoring Our PACT Act, Electoral Count Reform and Presidential Transition Improvement Act, and Respect for Marriage Act."

    All of these except the first two were bipartisan and got 60 Senate votes (or more)

    replies(2): >>44469638 #>>44469803 #
    5. 9283409232 ◴[] No.44469632{3}[source]
    The answer is to vote out politicians. Getting ranked choice voting on your states ballot would go a long way to fixing this. They would not have Mamdani on the ballot for NY mayor if it wasn't for ranked choice voting. Certain politicans know this and have made RCV illegal in their state. Get RCV on the ballot for your state.
    replies(4): >>44469761 #>>44470041 #>>44470180 #>>44471146 #
    6. a_wild_dandan ◴[] No.44469664{3}[source]
    What does that matter? We're talking trifectas here, not supermajorities. The filibuster is a cute remnant of "decorum." It's a vestigial rule which will disappear when too inconvenient. (Fun question with not-so-fun answers: why isn't the filibuster gone already?)
    replies(1): >>44470020 #
    7. sugarpimpdorsey ◴[] No.44469712[source]
    The last time something like that happened was probably the Patriot Act.
    replies(2): >>44469785 #>>44469796 #
    8. mindslight ◴[] No.44469761{4}[source]
    RCV / Ranked Pairs of course. The IRV decision process is still a relic of the two party system, with the possibility for some pretty terrible strategic-voting dynamics as votes diverge from just two major parties.
    9. Calavar ◴[] No.44469785{3}[source]
    The 2024 Ukraine defense funding bill passed despite having < 50% support in the majority party in the House, and it was not part of a reconciliation.
    10. rpiguy ◴[] No.44469796{3}[source]
    Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) was the most sweeping legislation ever passed via reconciliation.
    replies(1): >>44469867 #
    11. thomquaid ◴[] No.44469803{4}[source]
    https://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/yearlycompari...

    It does seem like things are trending toward less public laws passing over the last decade, as well as record low time in session and other congressional activity.

    12. apsec112 ◴[] No.44469867{4}[source]
    Obamacare was passed via regular order (60 Senate votes), not reconciliation. There was a follow-up package to tweak it that passed via reconciliation in 2010, but the original bill was regular order. It's the only (very brief) window where one party has held 60 Senate seats since 1977.
    13. pfannkuchen ◴[] No.44469916[source]
    It seems like a more formalized quid pro quo system is needed so that political favors can be split across bills and relied upon. This sort of thing seems to be human nature, it doesn’t help anyone to pretend in the procedural rules that it doesn’t happen.
    replies(1): >>44470570 #
    14. evan_ ◴[] No.44469932{6}[source]
    “Thought terminating cliche” has become a thought terminating cliche.
    replies(2): >>44470002 #>>44470492 #
    15. onlyrealcuzzo ◴[] No.44469965[source]
    Which is why we need to get rid of reconciliation and go back to actually needing to get compromise, but hell will freeze over twice before that happens.
    16. ethbr1 ◴[] No.44470020{4}[source]
    > (Fun question with not-so-fun answers: why isn't the filibuster gone already?)

    Because both parties are scared eventually the other party will be back in the majority.

    replies(1): >>44471671 #
    17. ◴[] No.44470041{4}[source]
    18. margalabargala ◴[] No.44470156{3}[source]
    Absolutely. Many bills in the Senate in that time have gotten over 90. Here's one that passed 95-2 that I picked at random.

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/870...

    A lot of what happens in Congress is obvious to do and everyone agrees. While the media certainly focuses on the handful of things the two parties are at odds over, most of the lawmaking done by Congress is not controversial between parties, and is simply passed, so we don't hear about it.

    19. boroboro4 ◴[] No.44470180{4}[source]
    Not important but Mamdani would’ve won without ranked choice voting too, it didn’t play a role in the end.
    replies(1): >>44470369 #
    20. tialaramex ◴[] No.44470369{5}[source]
    We can't know. Ranked choice changes how people vote.

    In particular it gives people permission to vote for a candidate they like but don't expect to be able to win.

    21. bmacho ◴[] No.44470396{6}[source]
    Threads being over is a good thing, isn't it? Truth's been discovered, all parties agree, no more time spent on going in circles, can move on to do other, meaningful things, etc. Unless you are facebook, and you optimize on endless churn, stealing time and showing ads.

    I haven't seen the original comment, but the wiki article is moronic. None of the listed example seems even bad to me, claiming that they are the devil is ridiculous. Maybe even a false flag.

    The only one that actually has anything to do with "terminating cliche" is "Let's agree to disagree.". But that's just the common phrase you say after you've decided to opt out of an argument. It is not (and can't be) the cause of it, it is the consequence of it.* And it is by no means any bad, or should one avoid it.

    * : something something people being able to easily leave an argument makes them do it more. But it would need a lot of stretch to argue that the possibility to go away from arguments is a net negative for humanity

    edit: can we agree that the random shit you linked is 100% unrelated to the argument at hand, therefore/and definitely should not be used?

    edit2: yeah, it assumes the truthness of some ridiculously nonsensical concepts, and uses them in a meta meta way, that is 2-3 steps away from the topic at hand. Much-much more annoying than anything listed. "This is the hill you want to die on, huh? Naah.. How about.." *points downwards* "..there is this hill there 14000 miles away (actually there is only ocean), how about we move this fight there?" Yeah no thx.

    22. bmacho ◴[] No.44470492{7}[source]
    Some billion times more than any of the listed sayings in the wiki page.
    23. disgruntledphd2 ◴[] No.44470570[source]
    This was called pork when it used to happen and people were very angry about it.
    24. AnthonyMouse ◴[] No.44471146{4}[source]
    Score voting (or STAR) is better.
    25. actionfromafar ◴[] No.44471671{5}[source]
    So it seems like a good canary? If it’s removed, the ruling party is no longer afraid it will be ever removed from power.