←back to thread

Nvidia won, we all lost

(blog.sebin-nyshkim.net)
977 points todsacerdoti | 3 comments | 04 Jul 25 21:58 UTC | HN request time: 0.623s | source
Show context
bigyabai ◴[04 Jul 25 22:50 UTC] No.44468594[source]▶
> Pretty much all upscalers force TAA for anti-aliasing and it makes the entire image on the screen look blurry as fuck the lower the resolution is.

I feel like this is a misunderstanding, though I admit I'm splitting hairs here. DLSS is a form of TAA, and so is FSR and most other modern upscalers. You generally don't need an extra antialiasing pipeline if you're getting an artificially supersampled image.

We've seen this technique variably developed across the lifespan of realtime raster graphics; first with checkerboard rendering, then TAA, then now DLSS/frame generation. It has upsides and downsides, and some TAA implementations were actually really good for the time.

replies(2): >>44468710 #>>44471110 #
kbolino ◴[04 Jul 25 23:08 UTC] No.44468710[source]▶
Every kind of TAA that I've seen creates artifacts around fast-moving objects. This may sound like a niche problem only found in fast-twitch games but it's cropped up in turn-based RPGs and factory/city builders. I personally turn it off as soon as I notice it. Unfortunately, some games have removed traditional MSAA as an option, and some are even making it difficult to turn off AA when TAA and FXAA are the only options (though you can usually override these restrictions with driver settings).
replies(2): >>44468805 #>>44469066 #
ohdeargodno ◴[04 Jul 25 23:23 UTC] No.44468805[source]▶
It's not that it's difficult to turn off TAA: it's that so many modern techniques do not work without temporal accumulation and anti-aliasing.

Ray tracing? Temporal accumulation and denoising. Irradiance cache? Temporal accumulation and denoising. most modern light rendering techniques cannot be done in time in a single frame. Add to that the fact that deferred or hybrid rendering makes implementing MSAA be anywhere between "miserable" and "impossible", and you have the situation we're in today.

replies(1): >>44468931 #
1. kbolino ◴[04 Jul 25 23:44 UTC] No.44468931[source]▶
A lot of this is going to come down to taste so de gustibus and all that, but this feels like building on a foundation of sand. If the artifacts can be removed (or at least mitigated), then by all means let's keep going with cool new stuff as long as it doesn't detract from other aspects of a game. But if they can't be fixed, then either these techniques ought to be relegated to special uses (like cutscenes or the background, kinda like the pre-rendered backdrops of FF7) or abandoned/rethought as pretty but impractical.
replies(1): >>44471443 #
2. ohdeargodno ◴[05 Jul 25 09:45 UTC] No.44471443[source]▶
So, there is a way to make it so that TAA and various temporal techniques look basically flawless. They need a _lot_ of information and pixels.

You need a 4k rendering resolution, at least. Modern effects look stunning at that res.

Unfortunately, nothing runs well at 4k with all the effects on.

replies(1): >>44473210 #
3. ◴[05 Jul 25 14:58 UTC] No.44473210[source]▶