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As a Labrador swam by me out to sea his owner said I hope he doesn't meet a seal

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117 points austinallegro | 4 comments | 04 Jul 25 07:40 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
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SethMurphy ◴[04 Jul 25 09:16 UTC] No.44462753[source]▶
It always fascinated me that particular behaviors, like herding, can be so ingrained to a particular breed of dog. The dog is no longer in a setting where this is crucial to their survival, yet the urge exists. I do wonder for how many generations the behaviors would last, assuming the dominant genes were not surpressed. That is of course assuming genes are the factor that drives it. It's almost as if environment has little to do with the behavior in this case, other than having opportunity to exhibit the behavior.
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krisoft ◴[04 Jul 25 09:37 UTC] No.44462915[source]▶
Idk if the "herding behaviour" is a useful way to think of this. Imagine that we didn't speak the same language, you went for a swim in the ocean and I would go after you and dragged you back to shore while shouting (in my own language) "Oh my, that is so dangerous. Do you even know how many people drown like that? Stop this lunacy at once". Would you describe my behaviour as "herding"? Would you talk about generations, and dominant genes? Or would you just say "this person has some fear for my safety (well grounded or baseless) and seems to care enough about me to save me from the danger he perceives, while I can't convince him that it is fine because we don't speak the same language."
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1. closewith ◴[04 Jul 25 10:26 UTC] No.44463200[source]▶
Herding behaviour is so distinctive and so apparent in certain breeds that it's nonsense to dismiss like this. Peak HN arrogance.
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2. krisoft ◴[04 Jul 25 10:52 UTC] No.44463360[source]▶
> it's nonsense to dismiss like this

I'm not dismissing herding behaviour. It is a thing. But genetics is simply not a good explanation for the story here. Here we have two dogs of the same breed (Arthur and Lenny). One lets their owner swim freely the other doesn't. The difference here is not genetics (they are the same berad), this in my opinion is a personality difference between the two dogs.

Which is why I'm starting my comment with "Idk if the "herding behaviour" is a useful way to think of this." Calling it "herding behaviour" doesn't explain the difference between the two labradors.

> Peak HN arrogance.

So lovely. Would you say that to my face closewith? I was nothing but polite to you and everyone else. I'm a human here you know. Can you treat me like one?

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3. Veen ◴[04 Jul 25 11:14 UTC] No.44463473[source]▶
It is not polite to assume that you, after a brief amount of thinking with no background knowledge, have overturned centuries of empirical and scientific knowledge of canine behavioural heredity. It is astonishingly presumptuous. And it is, indeed, peak HN arrogance to make that assumption.
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4. krisoft ◴[04 Jul 25 11:30 UTC] No.44463568{3}[source]▶
> It is not polite to assume that you, after a brief amount of thinking with no background knowledge, have overturned centuries of empirical and scientific knowledge of canine heredity.

I do not claim any such thing. Simply that the difference in behaviour between two dogs of the same breed cannot be explained with genetics. Lenny and Arthur share a genetic background. They do not share the behaviour. There is some other difference between Lenny and Arthur (or between the two swimmers!) which drives the difference in the observed behaviours.

I'm not saying genetics is not a thing. It is simply not the right lens to inspect this situation here.

> And it is, indeed, peak HN arrogance to make that assumption.

Which I'm not making. In any of my comments. So we are good then. :)