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124 points harambae | 28 comments | | HN request time: 2.137s | source | bottom
1. rgmerk ◴[] No.44462229[source]
It seems that no one is prepared to point out the obvious - devaluation of the dollar is a cut in American living standards.
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2. pavlov ◴[] No.44462263[source]
Tariffs and a devaluating currency are a double whammy of inflation on imports.

It will be reflected in overall inflation statistics, and that limits the Fed’s ability to cut rates.

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3. spencerflem ◴[] No.44462298[source]
Totally agreed. My only hope is that the evil bastards who willed this to happen bear the suffering more.
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4. jjav ◴[] No.44462345[source]
They just gave themselves billions in tax cuts, so they'll be comfortable.
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5. spwa4 ◴[] No.44462597{3}[source]
It's 6500 billion dollars, generally referred to as "trillions".

A vote for Trump, as it turns out, was a vote to increase US national debt by double what anyone increased it by before (which was also Trump, so anyone saying they "didn't see this coming" ...)

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6. corimaith ◴[] No.44462722[source]
Those evil bastards are also most central bankers around the world that agree that the incredibly unbalanced balance of trade today needs to be rebalanced. America is consuming too much, and the world is saving too much. So yes, your living standards do need to go down for the sake of the greater global macroeconomic stability.

Contrary to what xkcd or NYT might tell you, actual economic institutions like the IMF and the World Bank are coigzant of the issues caused by the status quo and largely view the Trumpian diagnosis, if not the horrid execution, as correct.

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7. StopDisinfo910 ◴[] No.44463623{3}[source]
> Those evil bastards are also most central bankers around the world that agree that the incredibly unbalanced balance of trade today needs to be rebalanced.

No central bankers in the world ever said that including Powell. That’s Trump policy and Trump only.

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8. mensetmanusman ◴[] No.44463685[source]
Low derivatives of US gdp per capita growth over the past decade feels like stagnation to the population.
9. munksbeer ◴[] No.44463859{3}[source]
> the incredibly unbalanced balance of trade

The US sells billions of dollars of digital services to the rest of the world each year. Did Trump and co include netflix, aws, azure, etc etc in their "unbalanced trade"?

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10. corimaith ◴[] No.44464170{4}[source]
The Current Account Deficit includes goods and services.
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11. corimaith ◴[] No.44464232{4}[source]
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-05-22/g-7-draft...

https://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/speeches/2005/20050...

They have actually, the debate about persistent imbalances have been going on since the 2000s and Bessnet's arguments are simply the extension of Bernanke's prior hypotheses and ultimately Keynes diagnosis on global macroeconomics stability.

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12. MuffinFlavored ◴[] No.44464691[source]
Even if you own equities?
13. ◴[] No.44465161{5}[source]
14. lossolo ◴[] No.44465333{5}[source]
EU-US goods and services trade is balanced: the difference between EU exports to the US and US exports to the EU stood at €48 billion in 2023; the equivalent of just 3% of the total trade between the EU and the US.

Total bilateral trade in goods between the EU and the US reached €851 billion in 2023. The EU exported €503 billion of goods to the US market, while importing €347 billion; this resulted in a goods trade surplus of €157 billion for the EU.

Total bilateral trade in services between the EU and the US was worth €746 billion in 2023. The EU exported €319 billion of services to the US, while importing €427 billion from the US; this resulted in a services trade deficit of €109 billion for the EU.

source: https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-trade-relationships-cou...

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15. corimaith ◴[] No.44465967{6}[source]
So they are running a deficit; Nonetheless, bilateral balances don't tell much without understanding the larger context of the total balances of each country and how proportionate they are relative to the global sum.

The matter of fact is that nearly every major economy is running a surplus, it is really on the USA and some countries like UK that is holding up the deficit side. Whether you think this arrangement is good or not is a matter of debate, but many economists would agree it's not good or sustainable, nor should it be occurring in the first place. Surplus countries should have strengthening currencies, deficit countries weakening ones under natural conditions. This is not happening due to very specific policies that surplus nations have imposed, at the burden of deficit nations.

16. StopDisinfo910 ◴[] No.44466840{5}[source]
Neither articles are implying that.

The first one throws an intentionally vague imbalance and aims squarely at Chine state aids distortion. It also goes at length about how tariffs are seen as terrible by everyone and how it’s all about a level playing field and not about rebalancing trade balances.

The second is strictly about the US and explains that trade inbalance has more to do with capital flows that actual trade of goods and how the extreme situation in the US might need moderation. Its conclusion is that the trade balance will fix itself if the US both fixes its budget issues and help foreign countries to actually use their excess savings locally. That’s pretty far from thinking the balance of trade needs to be rebalanced.

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17. lunarboy ◴[] No.44467265{4}[source]
GOP being the "fiscally responsible" party is the best generational propaganda it's honestly impressive
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18. const_cast ◴[] No.44469436{5}[source]
It's more than generational at this point, and it's wildly successful from a propaganda standpoint. They're kind of banking on none of their constituents bothering to read the budget bills they pass. Which turns out to be a very good bet when your party is also ideologically opposed to education.
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19. dragonwriter ◴[] No.44469472{5}[source]
No, its just code that the audience recognizes: "fiscally responsible" in US politics means "opposed to social programs", in the same way that "states rights" means "supporting racial discrimination". People often criticize the people embracing those views not delivering on the things that the literal meaning of the words deliver, but the target audience for the message understands what they mean perfectly well, which is why no argument, no matter how well-delivered and well-supported by evidence, directed at the failure to deliver on the literal meaning ever budges support. It's not some kind of magically-strong propaganda that clouds people's minds, it's a message whose meaning is well-understood and arguments directed at the literal meaning are simply misdirected.
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20. lotsoweiners ◴[] No.44469851{6}[source]
I don’t think the party is ideologically opposed to education as much as they are opposed to the way it has been implemented the past few decades.
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21. thrance ◴[] No.44471238[source]
> that limits the Fed’s ability to cut rates.

Only insofar as it remains sort of independent. Trump has ranted several times already about taking control of the thing and forcefully cutting rates.

22. corimaith ◴[] No.44471986{6}[source]
>The first one throws an intentionally vague imbalance and aims squarely at Chine state aids distortion. It also goes at length about how tariffs are seen as terrible by everyone and how it’s all about a level playing field and not about rebalancing trade balances.

They are all talking about the same thing. The large imbalances in trade are precisely due to the distortionary domestic policies that surplus nations bring, of which China is commonly perceived as the biggest violator. A world without any protectionist policies is one where trade balances are temporary or close to 0 due to FX effects.

>The second is strictly about the US and explains that trade inbalance has more to do with capital flows that actual trade of goods and how the extreme situation in the US might need moderation.

You clearly then need to review your definitions because we are talking about the same concepts here. Current Account + Financial & Capital Account = 0. The capital flows are the direct inverse of the current account and flow of trade. In the same way, Current Account = Savings - Investment. When he talks about using excess savings locally, that is precisely about moving savings into consumtpion and thus reducing trade surpluses.

That is very much what economists or Bessnet are still saying today in reducing excessive surpluses in turn and thus trade imbalances. Clearly after 20 years, trade imbalances aren't self-balancing like FX effects would imply, due to very explicit policies pursed by said surplus nations in doubling down on manufacturing rather than increasing consumption.

Mind you, the greater implication of what Bernanke was suggesting is that the excess savings and associated large capital inflows (and thus deficit) is what fueled the housing bubble and credit expansion in the 2000s that led to the GFC. The greater argument being that these distortionary policies that being pursued domestically in surplus countries over manufacturing is leading to an associated distortion in the US economy towards overfinancialization.

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23. jaybrendansmith ◴[] No.44473630{7}[source]
So it's up to the USA to take a hit and fix the balance? I call BS on that. Seems extremely dumb, just like everything else I've seen coming out of the current admin. Biggest self own I've ever seen.
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24. AnimalMuppet ◴[] No.44473667{8}[source]
The US was also taking hits from the imbalance. The GP lists several.

Mind you, I'm not saying whether trying to rebalance is smart or dumb. I'm just saying that the imbalance causes us problems too.

25. const_cast ◴[] No.44475053{7}[source]
I think this is the plausible deniability they foster, but I don't think this is true. The right has been opposed to public education pretty much since the beginning, even before the DOE. And, of their complaints of the DOE, most of them are legitimately made up. Like the DOE setting curriculum or censoring conservative voices.

Since the beginning, conservatives gravitate towards more... alternative... history. I know I was taught about the War of Northern Aggression in schools. Their issue with public education isn't per se the "education" part, but the "public" part. Unfortunately, an attack on public education is an attack on education itself. We all understand that less public education means less education on average.

I quiet enjoy living in a country with literacy rates in the high 90s, and I'd like it to stay that way.

26. corimaith ◴[] No.44475677{8}[source]
>So it's up to the USA to take a hit and fix the balance?

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/rebalancing-the-world-eco...

It's better to say that rebalancing is a painful affair. But account balances should be naturally self-balancing in the first place, the imbalance today is the result of policies that the surplus nations, China foremost, is unwilling to abandon easily. If they all opened up their capital markets, currency controls and removed subsidies and tariffs, if they seriously committed themselves to free trade the problem would solve itself in time. And most economists would agree with me on that.

But if they are unwilling to do that, and the last 20 years of negotiation have been fruitless, then unfortunately America may need to resort to unilateral actions to resolve it themselves. And if you run the simulations, America will win that fight for escalation. It will hurt for us all, but inflation is nothing compared to the mass unemployment surplus nations will suffer.

I don't paticularly agree with Trump's methods or his flip-flop execution in attempting to resolve the problem, but it is a problem that many would agree needs to be resolved. China, Europe all themselves have agreed now that they need to raise consumption instead of doubling down on manufacturing, and that's very much convergent with what the Administration seeks to achieve overall.

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27. spencerflem ◴[] No.44476596{6}[source]
this is the conclusion ive come to recently. its not an education problem, its that somewhere around 20% of people are evil
28. jaybrendansmith ◴[] No.44481270{9}[source]
I don't believe people need or want this to be 'resolved'. That is a false choice. This imbalance is unhealthy but was working largely in our favor. Any anything that can survive for 20 years can persist forever. China has a problem: They need to continually improve the lives of their people to stay in power and/or to avoid resorting to unpleasantness to stay in control. Their solution is to fund this imbalance. In any case, I don't understand why people believe any of these tariffs are in good faith. They are clearly a means to unilaterally punish some nations and reward others in exchange for ... something. They are also a way to inflict economic hardships by instituting a regressive tax on all Americans. The game here has nothing to do with what's best for the American people. It's what's best for the oligarchs, and Trump. And what's the best way to consolidate power, punish enemies, reward friends, and in general destroy the current economic order, the American middle class, the meritocracy, and what remains of democracy.