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595 points geox | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.533s | source
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nektro ◴[] No.44450235[source]
i think what contributes the most to my sense of dread is the feeling that if you were to tell these decision makers in govt right now "but this'll kill people!" they'd respond "good"
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jmholla ◴[] No.44450356[source]
They don't care about people. Senator Joni Ernst when told that people would die due from the spending bill responded with, "Well, we are all going to die."
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bix6 ◴[] No.44450845[source]
And then doubled down with a later Instagram post making fun of everyone. How are these people our elected officials? It’s unbelievable.
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FergusArgyll ◴[] No.44454461[source]
> How are these people our elected officials? It’s unbelievable.

Because they know that the vast majority of people advocating for climate change to be a high priority issue is because they want to use that to slow down capitalism - the system that made the US the country they love.

I never hear growth-minded solutions for climate change: Let's get rich enough so everyone (even European hotels) can afford AC? Drug companies make enough money so even poor Africans can afford medicines and theraputics? Deregulate the solar industry? Reduce regulatory barriers for autonomous vehicles? Fast track nuclear power? Stop the fight against ride-sharing?

If the problem was climate change & it was a severe existential issue, I'd assume you'd support all of the above?

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HelloMcFly ◴[] No.44454802[source]
> Because they know that the vast majority of people advocating for climate change to be a high priority issue is because they want to use that to slow down capitalism

Is this really what you think? That the people concerned about climate change are really just interested in changing economic policy? The real motives of environmentalists is to erode capitalism? Respectfully: that's nuts.

> Let's get rich enough so everyone (even European hotels) can afford AC

This "proposal" does nothing, and in fact makes things worse, if that AC is not clean energy! Your "growth-minded" solution is not only not a solution, it's a problem exacerbator. But yes, many of us do in fact advocate for deregulation of the solar industry (I have canvassed on this very issue), and support fast tracking nuclear power. And is there even a fight against ride-sharing to stop?

I just feel like your comment is coming from a different world than my own.

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1. FergusArgyll ◴[] No.44457767[source]
> Is this really what you think? That the people concerned about climate change > are really just interested in changing economic policy?

Yes, Here's some examples:

Environmental Justice and Economic Degrowth: An Alliance between Two Movements

https://doi.org/10.1080/10455752.2011.648839

You can read this wonderful socialist article

https://monthlyreview.org/2023/04/01/marxian-ecology-dialect...

Or from "International socialism"

https://isj.org.uk/degrowth-and-marxism/

Or you can get a degree!

Master's Degree in Political Ecology Degrowth and Environmental Justice

https://www.uab.cat/web/postgraduate/master-in-political-eco...

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2. HelloMcFly ◴[] No.44458155[source]
This is an irritating strawman. I never claimed that no environmentalists have socialist views, or that the movements don’t sometimes overlap in policy preferences even when their motivations for such policies are wholly different.

My point is simply that the vast majority of climate advocates are arguing for policies that conserve and preserve what we have into the future, and that demand the long-term costs of many of our current policies and practices are actually accounted for vs. kicking that externality to the future public. There is no hidden agenda to upend society.

Many of the desires practices are growth-friendly fixes: carbon pricing, deregulating solar, advanced nuclear[1], electrifying transport, ceasing public subsidies for coal and oil. They aren’t campaigning to upend capitalism itself, but to adapt our economy so we can continue to thrive without cooking the planet, destroying ecosystems, and damaging long-term health of the natural world we rely on for life, not just recreation.

Pointing to a handful of degrowth manifestos or niche graduate programs doesn’t prove that mainstream environmentalism is really a Trojan horse for anti-capitalism. If you’re looking to debate climate policy, let’s stick to the proposals most people are actually pushing—and whether they’ll work—not whether some fringe authors happen to share an ideology.

[1] Not all environmentalists support this, I'll grant, but I don't know any who don't personally

3. ◴[] No.44460133[source]