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A list is a monad

(alexyorke.github.io)
153 points polygot | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.218s | source
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brooke2k ◴[] No.44445948[source]
As far as monad tutorials go, this one seems quite good. I like the categorization of monads between "containers" and "recipes".

However, I personally think that monad tutorials tend to give people the wrong impression and leave them more confused than they were before, because they focus on the wrong thing.

A monad is not a complex concept, at all. IMO a more useful way to present the topic would be with one separate lesson for every common monad instance. Start with Maybe, then IO, then maybe State and List, and so on... because ultimately, every instance of a Monad works very differently. That's why the pattern is so useful in the first place, because it applies to so many places. (Note: this is a criticism of monad tutorials in general, not this one in particular, which seems to do a decent job on this front).

In my experience, people new to Haskell focus way too much on getting the "a-ha" moment for monads in general, when really you want a bunch of separate "a-ha" moments as you realize how each instance of a monad takes advantage of the pattern differently.

I also tend to think that monads are best demonstrated in Haskell rather than in other languages, if only because the notation is so much less clunky. That may just be me though. (EDIT: well, also because almost no other languages have typeclasses, so you have to approximate it with interfaces/traits/etc)

Also FYI: in part 2, the code examples have extra newlines in between every line, which makes it hard to read (I'm on firefox, if that matters).

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pdhborges ◴[] No.44446327[source]
If all monad instances work differently what is the value of the Monad interface? What kind of usefull generic code can one write against the Monad interface.

Related: https://buttondown.com/j2kun/archive/weak-and-strong-algebra...

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ww520 ◴[] No.44446781[source]
Here is an analogy. List is a container whose elements can be any type. There are general operations applying to a list, e.g. map, reduce, filter, find, etc. Any data type (int, float, or bool) of list elements can use these same operations regardless.

It’s similar for monad. If you can provide a unit constructor to turn an object value into a monad value and a “map” operation that unwraps a monad value, applies a function to it, and wraps the result, you have monadized the object type. Your objects can participate in any algorithm operates on monads.

The monad algorithms are the same. The only things different are the unit constructor and the mapping function.

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chriswarbo ◴[] No.44450931[source]
> a “map” operation that unwraps a monad value, applies a function to it, and wraps the result

It can be misleading to think of "unwrapping" a monadic value, since the monad interface does not support it. For example, there's no way to implement a function `List<T> -> T` using monad operations; it requires something entirely separate (e.g. indexing into a List, in this case).

What monads do provide is `join`, which turns nested monadic values into flat ones, like `List<List<T>> -> List<T>`. Even this seemingly trivial example is interesting though, since there are many ways to "flatten" a List<List<T>> into a List<T>: we could concatenate (e.g. depth-first), interleave (e.g. breadth-first), diagonalise (to support infinite lists), operate on chunks at a time (e.g. iterative deepening), etc.

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1. instig007 ◴[] No.44451161[source]
> For example, there's no way to implement a function `List<T> -> T` using monad operations; it requires something entirely separate (e.g. indexing into a List, in this case).

this is called catamorphism, that is folding. The opposite transformation is called anamorphism, that is generation from a seed value.