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131 points Traces | 11 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
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rckt ◴[] No.44442199[source]
Considering how everything is rigged in favor for the rich I don't have high hopes for this. But it would be great if they really come up with a system that makes sense and offers equal tax regimes for everybody. Right now if I'm not mistaken in Spain the most taxed people (in terms of ratio) are those who earn < ~300K per year.
replies(1): >>44442248 #
diggan ◴[] No.44442248[source]
> Right now if I'm not mistaken in Spain the most taxed people (in terms of ratio) are those who earn < ~300K per year.

You are mistaken. Currently, the higher income you have here, the higher tax rate you have, where the highest tax rate on income sits at 47%, which you get hit by when your income is above 300K/year. People between 60K and 300K sits at 45%.

And then there are regional differences, someone in Andalucía don't pay the same amount of taxes as someone who lives in Catalunya for example, where the top tax rate is 50%.

Even taking into account other taxes we have, you still end up paying more in taxes the more you earn, unless you start engaging in schemes to lessen your tax burden, obviously. Although the social security is capped, so it does increase slower once you go beyond the cap, but it doesn't start regressing which your comment hinted at.

Edit: important to note that the tax rates are all marginal tax rates, maybe that was a bit unclear.

replies(1): >>44442263 #
foota ◴[] No.44442263[source]
Wow, a 45% tax starting at 60k is kinda unreal.
replies(11): >>44442287 #>>44442313 #>>44442314 #>>44442361 #>>44442459 #>>44442618 #>>44442752 #>>44442801 #>>44442806 #>>44447299 #>>44452305 #
1. diggan ◴[] No.44442287[source]
Why is that? Sure, not all of it goes directly to people who need it, but I generally feel fine paying that amount of taxes, because I myself got helped by others paying taxes when I was dirt-poor but still needed to go to the hospital.

If/once you reach that point (+60K/year), you already live a above-average life, why not share some of that with others who aren't as good/lucky as yourself? Seems like a no-brainer to me, but I might be too European to really grasp the problem.

replies(2): >>44442317 #>>44442367 #
2. Nextgrid ◴[] No.44442317[source]
60k/year doesn't feel above-average considering the rent in Barcelona for example.

I wonder, have there been any studies/considerations for making rent tax-deductible for individuals? That would address this problem for example. There probably is a good reason for not doing it, but I wonder what it is.

replies(2): >>44442338 #>>44442402 #
3. diggan ◴[] No.44442338[source]
> 60k/year doesn't feel above-average considering the rent in Barcelona for example.

Barcelona (and Madrid) are extreme examples though, not "average" by most measures. Take a look at houses/apartments just 30 minutes outside of Barcelona (not too familiar with Madrid) and it's way easier to find affordable places, and it's easy enough to get into the city with trains and buses.

replies(1): >>44443131 #
4. zdragnar ◴[] No.44442367[source]
It's a remarkably high rate for people accustomed to progressive tax systems with a sharper curve.

It's not hard for tech workers to start hitting top rates similar or higher than that in the US if you're in a high tax state, but at 60k you're more likely to top out at 39%, but because the curve is so steep the average (actual percentage of income) tax is only something like 22%. That includes extras like social security and Medicare.

Living in a state without any income tax will further lower those numbers.

replies(1): >>44442400 #
5. diggan ◴[] No.44442400[source]
> Living in a state without any income tax will further lower those numbers.

Sure, but how well are those without income supported in those states? Can they live a comfortable life even if they're unable to work? Can they go to the hospital and do life-saving surgeries without being in debt for the rest of their lives? Are there enough libraries and beyond-school activities everyone could use for free, regardless of income?

Once you hit those rates, I feel like you should stop thinking about how you can pay less in taxes, and figure out how you can support everyone else around you, otherwise what's the point of earning all that money in the first place?

replies(2): >>44442627 #>>44443672 #
6. eithed ◴[] No.44442402[source]
Accounting for wages being influenced by cost of living of the place you're registered in when determining tax bracket seems like a solution (but it's just my naive thinking)
7. ta1243 ◴[] No.44442627{3}[source]
> Once you hit those rates, I feel like you should stop thinking about how you can pay less in taxes, and figure out how you can support everyone else around you, otherwise what's the point of earning all that money in the first place?

Taxes are the fees you pay for living in a nice society

8. rsanek ◴[] No.44443131{3}[source]
I don't know if I'd say "extreme example", >10% of the entire country lives in one of those cities.
replies(1): >>44444495 #
9. zdragnar ◴[] No.44443672{3}[source]
> Sure, but how well are those without income supported in those states?

No income at all generally means you're eligible for either Medicaid or Medicare, or COBRA coverage if you're recently unemployed.

The worst off are people who have low paying jobs- they make too much for benefits (typically 138% or more of the federal poverty level) but not enough to afford employer-sponsored or private-market insurance.

replies(1): >>44453294 #
10. diggan ◴[] No.44444495{4}[source]
Some quick "on top of my head" math tells me ~10% of the population in Spain lives in Madrid or Barcelona, so that pretty much makes it a minority in my head. Put another way, the majority (90%) of the Spanish population lives somewhere else than in Madrid or Barcelona.

Even if you count the greater metropolitan area (where I'm part of the Barcelona one myself, although I live 30 minutes away from the city), you only get up ~20% of the population living in either Madrid or Barcelona. Even then I'd say we're in minority compared to the people who don't live in either those "metropolitan" areas.

11. diggan ◴[] No.44453294{4}[source]
> Medicaid or Medicare, or COBRA

Forgive my ignorance, but aren't those all federal programs? Or are they somehow indirectly paid by income taxes from the states themselves?

Do a state with no income tax have the same coverage for Medicaid,Medicare, or COBRA as a state with 50% income tax, for example?