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BusyBeaver(6) Is Quite Large

(scottaaronson.blog)
271 points bdr | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.202s | source
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Scarblac ◴[] No.44406478[source]
It boggles my mind that a number (an uncomputable number, granted) like BB(748) can be "independent of ZFC". It feels like a category error or something.
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tromp ◴[] No.44407378[source]
What makes BB(748) independent of ZFC is not its value, but the fact that one of the 748-state machines (call it TM_ZFC_INC) looks for an inconsistency (proof of FALSE) in ZFC and only halts upon finding one.

Thus, any proof that BB(748) = N must either show that TM_ZF_INC halts within N steps or never halts. By Gödel's famous results, neither of those cases is possible if ZFC is assumed to be consistent.

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woopsn ◴[] No.44409464[source]
Does the fact that BB(k)=N is provable up to some k < 748 mean that all halting problems for machines with k states are answered by a proof in ZFC?
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1. legobmw99 ◴[] No.44423439[source]
748 is not tight. As given in the article, k=643 is independent of ZFC, and the author speculates that it's possible that something as small as BB(9) could be as well.

The 748/745/643 numbers are just examples of actual machines people have written, using that many states, that halt iff a proof of "false" is found.

At any rate, given the precise k, I believe your intuition is correct. I've heard this called 'proof by simulation' -- if you know a bound on BB(N), you can run a machine for that many steps and then you know if it will run forever. But this property is exactly the intuition for why it grows so fast, and why we will likely never definitively know anything beyond BB(5). BB(6) seems like it might be equivalent to the Collatz conjecture, for example.